Friday Facts #172 - Blending and Rendering

Regular reports on Factorio development.

HammerPiano
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Re: Friday Facts #172 - Blending and Rendering

Post by HammerPiano » Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:01 pm

AHH beautiful graphics!
Can't wait for 0.15 to come out

radeor
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Re: Friday Facts #172 - Blending and Rendering

Post by radeor » Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:16 pm

The new graphics look really cool!

It might also be helpful if the signal had some subtle inherent way they displayed their direction.

Consider, for example, the 1 way signals in OpenTTD, and how they have a clear front and back:

Image
fig.1 The facing of one way signals communicates the direction of the tracks

Regardless of which side of the track they are on it instantly communicates to the player which direction the trains are expected to be coming from because, it's the direction that the train can actually easily be expected to see the signal. (Notice however the player can still see the signal for either it's just slightly more opaquely from the backside). I noticed that near the intersection the signal acquire what look like a few chevrons (<<) to indicate direction, which is helpful, if a bit overt.

For new and experienced player It might be a bit easier mentally to know that than having to remember which side of the tracks the signals are on for when train is going north / south | east / west. Eventually your brain will map full green light vs half visible green light into grokking the train direction subconsciously in a way that does not depend on the positional location of the indicator, only it's relative shape (which the brain is faster at scanning for qualitative analytics, versus position which it is better used for quantitative ones).

In any event looking forward to playing with the new higher res tiles!
Last edited by radeor on Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Koub
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Re: Friday Facts #172 - Blending and Rendering

Post by Koub » Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:18 pm

I understood almost nothing in the top part, except we can expect graphical sexyness, and it's god for me :).

The bottom part looks promising :).
Koub - Please consider English is not my native language.

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ledow
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Re: Friday Facts #172 - Blending and Rendering

Post by ledow » Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:29 pm

Top bit too techy - I've read OpenGL Superbible back-to-front a thousand times and understand it, but I'm a mathematician.

Summary for those not mathematical: By pre-calculating some of the graphics transparency, we can speed up overlapping images rendering on screen, and make them reinforce (flame on flame) or cancel each other out (e.g. flame over the top of a tree) easily with one graphic.

The rest looks really pretty, but too much tempting and not enough changes!

Getting bored with 0.14 at the moment, and only like playing vanilla.

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AncientCulture
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Re: Friday Facts #172 - Blending and Rendering

Post by AncientCulture » Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:58 pm

The new high res texture look really great :)

But I wonder when (and if) the terrain textures get also an high-res version.

Especially in this screenshot the low-res terrain texture standsout. Will this also be part of .15?

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Re: Friday Facts #172 - Blending and Rendering

Post by maniak1349 » Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:21 pm

Is there some rough estimate on how much VRAM will be required to play with high-res textures when every single texture in the game will have a high-res version?

New rails and signals are really beautiful. The only thing - aren't rails themselves looking a little too thin? There're trains with wagons full of ore and coal running on them after all.

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Re: Friday Facts #172 - Blending and Rendering

Post by ske » Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:28 pm

What color space are those alpha computations operating on?

I'm asking this because in a nonlinear colorspace (like sRGB with its gamma scaling) you cannot simply add two light intensities by adding numbers. In linear RGB you can do that, though.

I'm not up to date on how graphics are currently rendered. Ideally the R, G, B-intensities would be represented in linear by a high resolution 32bit number when rendering where individual intensities can simply be added. A filter then can apply the gamma curve on the linear number to convert each channel to 8bit for the output to screen as sRGB (or similar).

If you're interested in the details, this page has a good explanation: http://ninedegreesbelow.com/photography ... troduction

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Re: Friday Facts #172 - Blending and Rendering

Post by Loewchen » Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:44 pm

I think the red light of the block signal needs a bit more brightness.

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Re: Friday Facts #172 - Blending and Rendering

Post by Cutemine » Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:10 pm

really nice graphics!
Also, you might consider MathJax for the formulas instead of PNGs (Wich is a possible Fallback in MathJax) for increased readability in almost any browser at any fontsize.

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Re: Friday Facts #172 - Blending and Rendering

Post by hitzu » Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:44 pm

Could you add few nodes in the middle of the curved tracks?

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Re: Friday Facts #172 - Blending and Rendering

Post by posila » Sat Jan 07, 2017 12:09 am

maniak1349 wrote:Is there some rough estimate on how much VRAM will be required to play with high-res textures when every single texture in the game will have a high-res version?
Our initial estimate was 2GB, but it seems there will be also lot of new graphics so more might be required in the end. But I hope we will be able to make it work reasonably well with 2GB cards.
ske wrote:I'm asking this because in a nonlinear colorspace (like sRGB with its gamma scaling) you cannot simply add two light intensities by adding numbers. In linear RGB you can do that, though.
Factorio rendering is not gamma correct, but nobody seems to mind.

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Re: Friday Facts #172 - Blending and Rendering

Post by Marconos » Sat Jan 07, 2017 12:38 am

Really enjoy the posts. The graphics descriptions was great to see and understand. Looking great, can't wait to pump these new graphics through my system!!

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Re: Friday Facts #172 - Blending and Rendering

Post by Stripes » Sat Jan 07, 2017 12:41 am

Ah, the math, an language of Universe!

...Even if exact details, beyond "what does what" went above my head :D

But! New graphics is positively knee breaking gorgeous!

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Re: Friday Facts #172 - Blending and Rendering

Post by SeigneurAo » Sat Jan 07, 2017 12:49 am

New HD graphics are really gorgeous. Can't wait !
maniak1349 wrote:Is there some rough estimate on how much VRAM will be required to play with high-res textures when every single texture in the game will have a high-res version?
From the FAQ :
What are the recommended PC requirements?
4GB RAM*, 1GB dedicated video memory**, Dual core 2ghz processor*, 1280x720 screen resolution.
*The requirements grow with the size of the map, so huge maps require even more memory and processing power.
**For the high resolution option which will be available in version 0.15 and further 4GB of video memory will be needed.

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LotA
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Re: Friday Facts #172 - Blending and Rendering

Post by LotA » Sat Jan 07, 2017 1:33 am

2GB VRAM is not much nowadays... todays graphic cards are bundled with 4 or even 8 GBs

If the HD graphics only require 2GB ram, Then how about it being the base graphic, and then the current graphic would be the "low-quality" setting? ^^

The signals look sexy, but i'm still missing moar rail curves ;)

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Re: Friday Facts #172 - Blending and Rendering

Post by Mengmoshu » Sat Jan 07, 2017 2:38 am

There are a lot of people (and me) using machines that wouldn't meet the spec for the new high-res graphics. The current normal graphics are a pretty safe option, since the lower resolution is pretty terrible. I've always felt that defaults should be on the least-common-denominator side of things. This protects people who don't think to check settings before they jump in, and then possibly don't think to check the right ones if they have a problem.

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Re: Friday Facts #172 - Blending and Rendering

Post by Epic_Wink » Sat Jan 07, 2017 4:23 am

Oh wow people outside of physics/engineering who know how to typeset equations properly! Nice one Posila!

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Re: Friday Facts #172 - Blending and Rendering

Post by Losash » Sat Jan 07, 2017 4:53 am

Why is the horizontal train station 3D model turned sligtly clockwise? Or it's just a preview, and placed rougly by hand? I checked straight lines in paint, and yeah, it's turned.

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ABOG19
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Re: Friday Facts #172 - Blending and Rendering

Post by ABOG19 » Sat Jan 07, 2017 6:16 am

Losash wrote:Why is the horizontal train station 3D model turned sligtly clockwise? Or it's just a preview, and placed rougly by hand? I checked straight lines in paint, and yeah, it's turned.
Train bumped into it and bent the metal. :D

I had to go back and have a look again, good eye!

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