Friday Facts #160 - Playtesting

Regular reports on Factorio development.
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aubergine18
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Re: Friday Facts #160 - Playtesting

Post by aubergine18 » Wed Oct 19, 2016 3:40 pm

kovarex wrote:This will be properly moddable in 0.15
Would be great to get a #FF on modding API plans for 0.15 :)
Better forum search for modders: Enclose your search term in quotes, eg. "font_color" or "custom-input" - it prevents the forum search from splitting on hypens and underscores, resulting in much more accurate results.

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Re: Friday Facts #160 - Playtesting

Post by kovarex » Wed Oct 19, 2016 4:48 pm

aubergine18 wrote:
kovarex wrote:This will be properly moddable in 0.15
Would be great to get a #FF on modding API plans for 0.15 :)
The utility sprites is now already part of the data that is moddable, but it just contains small subset of the utility sprites we use. In 0.15 it contains all.

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Re: Friday Facts #160 - Playtesting

Post by Deadly-Bagel » Thu Oct 20, 2016 3:15 pm

hansinator wrote:There are different types of color-blindness with varying degrees of color intensity perception. repler may have a more severe form than you have.
Closest thing I found to mine is "Deuteronomic Trichromacy" which basically means my red/green vision is whack and I see in ~3 colours. More accurately, I see two colours (blue and green) and half of two more colours (red and orange). All other colours and many shades of red and orange appear green, except for purple which is blue. "All two colours of the rainbow" and all that. It makes playing a LOT of games very tedious, and sometimes Factorio is no exception =/

On the other hand I can instantly spot grey squirrels in a forest, they might as well be neon. Actually if they were neon I probably wouldn't be able to see them at all lol.

But yes this game needs more colour deficient support. Start with train signals please.
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Re: Friday Facts #160 - Playtesting

Post by nuhll » Thu Oct 20, 2016 3:49 pm

Please rethink the train design. Its too hard for me to understand. I sometimes cant igure out why something is not working, or why is it blocking.

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Re: Friday Facts #160 - Playtesting

Post by AndrolGenhald » Thu Oct 20, 2016 4:40 pm

nuhll wrote:Please rethink the train design. Its too hard for me to understand. I sometimes cant igure out why something is not working, or why is it blocking.
There's nothing wrong with the design, it just needs a tutorial. I'd bet if you go search the help forum there will be plenty of posts helping explain proper signalling.

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Re: Friday Facts #160 - Playtesting

Post by malvo » Thu Oct 20, 2016 5:27 pm

I think a cool addition to the game is to be able to place combat robots into either the Roboport or some type of robot defense structure where they will be deployed when an enemy comes into range.

It would be very cool to be able to setup patrols or other RTS type stuff with combat robots.

Also, I think there should also be an MK2 version of the tank or tank upgrades like shields or additional turrets.

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Re: Friday Facts #160 - Playtesting

Post by Andrzejef » Fri Oct 21, 2016 3:22 am

malvo wrote:I think a cool addition to the game is to be able to place combat robots into either the Roboport or some type of robot defense structure where they will be deployed when an enemy comes into range.

It would be very cool to be able to setup patrols or other RTS type stuff with combat robots.
Combat drones on patrol? I dig the idea. Let's see those pesky biters sneaking on your factory now :P
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Re: Friday Facts #160 - Playtesting

Post by lingnau » Fri Oct 21, 2016 1:20 pm

AndrolGenhald wrote:
nuhll wrote:Please rethink the train design. Its too hard for me to understand. I sometimes cant igure out why something is not working, or why is it blocking.
There's nothing wrong with the design, it just needs a tutorial. I'd bet if you go search the help forum there will be plenty of posts helping explain proper signalling.
Yeah, for instance this guide:
https://www.reddit.com/r/factorio/comme ... ts_23_and/
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Re: Friday Facts #160 - Playtesting

Post by ssilk » Fri Oct 21, 2016 3:05 pm

I think someone should write "Guide to Factorio-Guides" - and half of the book is about Rail-Guides with a DVD extension that contains copies of the most recent guide-videos.

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Re: Friday Facts #160 - Playtesting

Post by MrGrim » Fri Oct 21, 2016 6:53 pm

malvo wrote:I think a cool addition to the game is to be able to place combat robots into either the Roboport or some type of robot defense structure where they will be deployed when an enemy comes into range.

It would be very cool to be able to setup patrols or other RTS type stuff with combat robots.

Also, I think there should also be an MK2 version of the tank or tank upgrades like shields or additional turrets.
I won't deny it would be cool, but the game really needs automated offensive combat. Automated defense is already fairly robust.

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Re: Friday Facts #160 - Playtesting

Post by Festmester » Sat Oct 22, 2016 5:21 am

Shift click (ghost placement) should go through trees and rocks as blueprints with shift do.
I actually like the current ghost planning for rails etc. That way, I can see if I can build a rail without modifying terrain (trees, water, and so on). That's because I'm lazy!

Though I can definitely see ignoring obstacles has its advantages too, sometimes I wouldn't even know if the rail would fit where I want to build it because of trees or whatever, requiring me to remove everything nearby, just to find out it wasn't necessary after all. Hrmph.

Maybe after going into ghost placement, holding shift as a placement modifier will change it into 'ignore obstacles mode' so both things are handy. I see value in having both.

Unrelated suggestion: Easy read-out of the game's current settings that was used for creation. I think challenges should be a core part of the game. So why not allow boasting through the fact that you can show you just beat the game with all enemy sliders at the toughest setting while playing at the lowest recource richness, or something like that. It would encourage smart usage of resources, effective defenses and emphasizes base defense / offense vs. the monster camps that siege your base just outside, constantly sending in bad-guys.

Edit:
I forgot my other suggestion for base tutorials. Fluid handling.
Without reading comprehensive guides, I simply can't understand the basic principles of water (pressure, amount, etc):

- How much water a pump makes
- Where is the water consumed? In boilers, steam engines, etc
- Bottlenecks; where am I supposed to use pumps to control pressure; Before, after, or before AND after a water tank
- How many pipes, boilers, and steam engines can I use before steam engines begin to recieve 0 water and effectively be useless
- Setup: Steam engines in serial, parallel, parallel+series?

The amount of variables in scaling up electric production through steam is simply mindblowing without reading guides.
I like the realistic aspect of pressure, and water as a resource, but hell if I can make it out on my own.

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Re: Friday Facts #160 - Playtesting

Post by daniel34 » Sat Oct 22, 2016 6:18 am

Festmester wrote:
Shift click (ghost placement) should go through trees and rocks as blueprints with shift do.
I actually like the current ghost planning for rails etc. That way, I can see if I can build a rail without modifying terrain (trees, water, and so on). That's because I'm lazy!

Though I can definitely see ignoring obstacles has its advantages too, sometimes I wouldn't even know if the rail would fit where I want to build it because of trees or whatever, requiring me to remove everything nearby, just to find out it wasn't necessary after all. Hrmph.
Festmester wrote:Maybe after going into ghost placement, holding shift as a placement modifier will change it into 'ignore obstacles mode' so both things are handy. I see value in having both.
That's exactly how it already works in the game, for blueprints and the rail planner. Just not for ghosts of single entities which is meant here (the ones that appear when you shift-click on the ground with an entity in hand).

For the rail planner:
without holding shift = path goes around trees and rocks
with holding shift = path goes right through trees and rocks and they will be deconstructed

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Re: Friday Facts #160 - Playtesting

Post by Festmester » Sat Oct 22, 2016 6:46 am

daniel34 wrote:
Festmester wrote:
Shift click (ghost placement) should go through trees and rocks as blueprints with shift do.
I actually like the current ghost planning for rails etc. That way, I can see if I can build a rail without modifying terrain (trees, water, and so on). That's because I'm lazy!

Though I can definitely see ignoring obstacles has its advantages too, sometimes I wouldn't even know if the rail would fit where I want to build it because of trees or whatever, requiring me to remove everything nearby, just to find out it wasn't necessary after all. Hrmph.
Festmester wrote:Maybe after going into ghost placement, holding shift as a placement modifier will change it into 'ignore obstacles mode' so both things are handy. I see value in having both.
That's exactly how it already works in the game, for blueprints and the rail planner. Just not for ghosts of single entities which is meant here (the ones that appear when you shift-click on the ground with an entity in hand).

For the rail planner:
without holding shift = path goes around trees and rocks
with holding shift = path goes right through trees and rocks and they will be deconstructed
I'm sorry if I suggested already existing features, I'm obviously not aware of everything with the many changes :) Learn something new every day about this game! I'll give it a try!

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Re: Friday Facts #160 - Playtesting

Post by jonathanpaulson » Sat Oct 22, 2016 3:16 pm

In all my vanilla playthroughs (including a just-finished 0.14), I have never felt the need for trains. A few-hundred tile conveyer belt always seemed more convenient. Please change something so that trains become a natural option (As of a while ago, the RSO mod did a good job of this).

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Re: Friday Facts #160 - Playtesting

Post by lingnau » Sat Oct 22, 2016 5:11 pm

jonathanpaulson wrote:In all my vanilla playthroughs (including a just-finished 0.14), I have never felt the need for trains. A few-hundred tile conveyer belt always seemed more convenient. Please change something so that trains become a natural option (As of a while ago, the RSO mod did a good job of this).
People use trains because TRAINS ARE FUN, not because there's a NEED. :D
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Re: Friday Facts #160 - Playtesting

Post by Neemys » Sat Oct 22, 2016 7:25 pm

jonathanpaulson wrote:In all my vanilla playthroughs (including a just-finished 0.14), I have never felt the need for trains. A few-hundred tile conveyer belt always seemed more convenient. Please change something so that trains become a natural option (As of a while ago, the RSO mod did a good job of this).
You may have patch not very far, but they are poor in ressources, each patch got more and more ressource as distance between said patch and starting area grow. Each outpost will then last longer.
Want more space restriction ? Or maybe you want to be forced to use train for other thing than ore and oil ? Try Building Platform Mod !

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Re: Friday Facts #160 - Playtesting

Post by jonathanpaulson » Sat Oct 22, 2016 8:37 pm

Neemys wrote:You may have patch not very far, but they are poor in ressources, each patch got more and more ressource as distance between said patch and starting area grow. Each outpost will then last longer.
I have always found there to be enough resources within comfortable belt distance to "finish the game" (research most techs and launch a rocket). It may be that trains are required for a megabase, but I think the game would greatly benefit from them being relevant much earlier (ideally, around when they are researched).

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Re: Friday Facts #160 - Playtesting

Post by Neemys » Sat Oct 22, 2016 10:18 pm

jonathanpaulson wrote:
Neemys wrote:You may have patch not very far, but they are poor in ressources, each patch got more and more ressource as distance between said patch and starting area grow. Each outpost will then last longer.
I have always found there to be enough resources within comfortable belt distance to "finish the game" (research most techs and launch a rocket). It may be that trains are required for a megabase, but I think the game would greatly benefit from them being relevant much earlier (ideally, around when they are researched).
Before having train, it's hard to balance resource spawn for letting player do their first base without running out of copper or iron. Some people need twice or thrice the amout of iron or copper than other depending on how they play. I think how it is now is good, people that don't want train, or don't know how to set them can play with starting ressources and patch around, player who want train can use them to be able to have long running outpost.
Forcing everyone to use train is in my opinion not a good thing to do.

But yes you don't need lots of ressource to launch a rocket, so even with one other outpost near with belt it works. That not because the patch are near but because a rocket is "cheap".
Want more space restriction ? Or maybe you want to be forced to use train for other thing than ore and oil ? Try Building Platform Mod !

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Re: Friday Facts #160 - Playtesting

Post by eiis1000 » Sat Oct 22, 2016 11:15 pm

Since the playthrough is so long, you should rethink "There is no spoon" and "No time for chitchat," as they are significantly harder now that playtime is up a ton. Also, how would "Tech Maniac" work with the infinite tech? Thanks!

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Re: Save of Kovarex's game

Post by kovarex » Sun Oct 23, 2016 11:26 pm

Danacus wrote:
Mion wrote:Kovarex, please give us your final save! I think it will be very useful and helpful for growing our factorio-skill for many of us.
His base is made in 0.15, so we can't open it in 0.14. :(
Edit: But some pictures would be nice :D
I'm not done as I need to make everything nice and figure out the proper setups, but the current state looks something like this.
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