Friday facts #158 - The end of the 32 bit era

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CobraA1
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Re: Friday facts #158 - The end of the 32 bit era

Post by CobraA1 » Fri Sep 30, 2016 7:09 pm

I'm pretty sure most of the remaining 32 bit holdouts are likely because of Windows XP (which had a 64 bit version, but it was poorly supported so most people stuck to 32 bit), or because they started with Windows XP / 32 bit and kept on the 32 bit path while upgrading to more recent OSes. Switching from 32 to 64 bit always meant a fresh install, rather than keeping installed software intact.

The solution will virtually always be to upgrade to a 64 bit OS. Software will need to be reinstalled, yes, but it will ensure compatibility. I have noticed that the number of games requiring 64 bit is only increasing.

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Re: Friday facts #158 - The end of the 32 bit era

Post by CobraA1 » Fri Sep 30, 2016 7:14 pm

Masterfox wrote:Oh well, I guess thanks to the help of some forum members, I am gonna have a talk with the kind person who once set up my PC. Side note? If I install WinXP64 over WinXP32, will I keep all my files?
If you're going to take the plunge, then I suggest Windows 7 or Windows 10 (or Linux). Might as well get onto a modern OS while you're at it.

Software will need to be reinstalled, but files should be fine. Although be super-careful if you decide to go with Linux - you'll want to avoid any sort of destructive partitioning if you want to keep your files, and you'll want to check compatibility with the new software that Linux provides.

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Re: Friday facts #158 - The end of the 32 bit era

Post by Zeblote » Fri Sep 30, 2016 7:28 pm

Masterfox wrote:Oh well, I guess thanks to the help of some forum members, I am gonna have a talk with the kind person who once set up my PC. Side note? If I install WinXP64 over WinXP32, will I keep all my files?
If said person is even one bit kind, he will refuse to install windows xp in 2016.

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Re: Friday facts #158 - The end of the 32 bit era

Post by RobertTerwilliger » Fri Sep 30, 2016 7:30 pm

That odd-looking intersecting ties show we need special textures speciffically for junctions...)
Well, that would increase memory usage dramatically, so how about just changing background texture layer for crossing rails from ties to something like this:
image
I believe it will look much more organic in cost of doubling texture memory for every single item of track (12 in total, I believe).
Or if backgroung (ties with gravel) and foreground (rails themselves) textures are stored in separate files, then it will not double, but only x1.5 memory usage.
Also, this texture can be flipped H and V, being perfectly flat surface. More or it, it can use only rimming (those metal lines, that prevent concrete corners from fast destroying), and fill inners with concrete or brick texture.
Holding formation further and further,
Millions of lamb stay in embrace of Judas.
They just need some bread and faith in themselves,
BUT
THE TSAR IS GIVEN TO THEM IN EXCHANGE!
Original: 5diez - "Ищу, теряя" (rus, 2013)

Loewchen
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Re: Friday facts #158 - The end of the 32 bit era

Post by Loewchen » Fri Sep 30, 2016 7:44 pm

In reality it looks like this:
Railroad switch
Crossing

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Re: Friday facts #158 - The end of the 32 bit era

Post by RobertTerwilliger » Fri Sep 30, 2016 7:46 pm

Zeblote wrote:Please tell me you didn't just make new textures without fixing this first?!?

Image
You see, it is impossible to make perfect circle without adding new 90°-turn rail (that will be connectable only on ends, BTW)
Because 135° turn has to be snapped to grid. If it will form perfect arc - it will be very long to fulfill all mathematical requirements - 135° arc's H:W ratio is roughly 12:5 (acually, it's 2.4142:1), meaning you'll need to have that arcing piece 24 cells high and 10 cells wide (considering rail grid is 2x2 of original Factorio grid)
So, be happy with what you have ; )
Holding formation further and further,
Millions of lamb stay in embrace of Judas.
They just need some bread and faith in themselves,
BUT
THE TSAR IS GIVEN TO THEM IN EXCHANGE!
Original: 5diez - "Ищу, теряя" (rus, 2013)

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Re: Friday facts #158 - The end of the 32 bit era

Post by V453000 » Fri Sep 30, 2016 7:49 pm

Loewchen wrote:In reality it looks like this:
Railroad switch
Crossing
We discussed this, it would be awesome to have it, but we would need a special tileset for junctions, which would have to be recognized in the code. :|

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Re: Friday facts #158 - The end of the 32 bit era

Post by mknejp » Fri Sep 30, 2016 7:58 pm

Please tell me the new graphics will fix vertical rails not being symmetrical around the tile grid. Trying to make train graphics with symmetrical features ends up looking really weird when the train isn't centered between the tracks.
backdrop-rails-vertical-grid.png
backdrop-rails-vertical-grid.png (111.37 KiB) Viewed 2615 times

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Re: Friday facts #158 - The end of the 32 bit era

Post by starholme » Fri Sep 30, 2016 9:39 pm

ledow wrote:Oh.

And I throw out dozens of machines a year. Those machines have all been 64-bit capable for many years.

But, literally, no-one will take them off my hands except WEEE-registered recycling companies who CHARGE ME to take them away.

So if you're desperately poor and can't afford a 64-bit machine at all, find your local recycling company, or ask local schools or businesses, or even ask your local recycling/refuse tip - I've often had to just throw them away because nobody wanted them! (and if it's less than 1 tonne a year, that's allowed).

Apart from hard drives (because of the data) we're throwing out stuff that would play 64-bit Factorio all the time.
Though you have just missed the Summer purge, so it's a bit unfortunate on the timing.
I just want to second this^

There are thousands of computers tossed each year in any city. Get ahold of the IT department for a school, library, municipal government(city, town, etc.). When you are trying to get in contact with them, just ask the secretary/whoever you get on the phone to let you speak to IT. Once you are talking to an actual IT person, let them know why you are calling. Ask what they do with old hardware, and if it would be possible to get your hands on a computer. Most IT folks hate to see good equipment go to a recycler. I've personally helped change out ~25 Core 2 Duo based machines so far this year. They are so worthless that it's cheaper for us to recycle them than to auction them.

Don't be disappointed if they say no. There may be regulations they have to follow. Just try a different school/whatever.

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Re: Friday facts #158 - The end of the 32 bit era

Post by Rhamphoryncus » Fri Sep 30, 2016 10:50 pm

RobertTerwilliger wrote:You see, it is impossible to make perfect circle without adding new 90°-turn rail (that will be connectable only on ends, BTW)
Fortunately since we no longer have curved tracks in inventory it is at lease plausible to add a single 90° curve entity. And the S-bend and other shapes we want. No idea if it will happen though, since it still has texture and coding costs.

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Re: Friday facts #158 - The end of the 32 bit era

Post by MeduSalem » Fri Sep 30, 2016 10:57 pm

ledow wrote:I still laugh when I run across a colleague insisting on installing 32-bit OS or still using 32-bit OS images. It's been time to move one for a long while. Windows Server doesn't even support 32-bit any more. It won't be long before consumer OS follow suit.
I actually wonder why Microsoft even released a 32-bit version of Windows 10. Almost no-one uses it. It has like 1% share on Steam Hardware Survey. It may have more marketshare outside the gaming world, I don't know. All I think about ever since the Windows 10 release is that they once more had the chance to throw some dead-weight over board but rather decided to carry it around for another decade because there's probably not going to be another major Windows version before 2020 where they would have another chance to do so. Yeah I know of the "Windows 10 is going to be the last major version" crap, I'm not buying it.

Also I think that Windows 7 32bit userbase is only as big as it is because Microsoft left most of the stubborn Windows XP users no choice but to upgrade if they want to receive further security updates and driver support from vendors. Otherwise that marketshare would be already down to 1-2% as well.
ledow wrote:Honestly, I'm not sure how you survive with only 4Gb any more, and I'm a programmer from the era where 48Kb was more memory than you'd ever thought you'd use. Once you take off hardware allocations, a Gb for basic Windows operation, and then tot up things like your web browser and background program usage, you don't have much left from 4Gb any more.
I can't really imagine how people are doing that nowadays either. Just starting a few programs and Windows would start swapping onto the harddisk killing the performance of your machine. Just a few tabs on Firefox and it takes 1-1.5 GB just for a webbrowser, let alone starting a 3D application like a video game or CAD program.

Seriously there's already stuff out there that you can't even run with only 8 GB of RAM, like for example Galactic Civilizations III... it's virtually unplayable with only 8GB because Windows would start swapping to the disk only after loading into the main menu. I had to upgrade to 12GB before it became somewhat "tolerable". (The irony is that the game states it should be running with at least 4GB, which is a ridiculous understatement almost worth suing their butt for with consumer protection)

If I had to recommend anything it would be at least 16 GB, better yet already 32 GB if possible if someone is going to buy a new computer. Anything else will only result in running short of RAM again soon (or at least only a few years from now) with all the HD content that everyone is pushing nowadays.

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Re: Friday facts #158 - The end of the 32 bit era

Post by tehroach » Fri Sep 30, 2016 11:49 pm

32-bit PC, what is that these days?

Love the new rail :)


PS
If anyone needs a 64-bit machine
I have 2 spare
core2duo Q6600 quads 2.4Ghz on P5K-Pro w/ 4Gb DDR2 RAM and case.

Free to a good home, if you can arrange pickup.

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Re: Friday facts #158 - The end of the 32 bit era

Post by tmzasz » Sat Oct 01, 2016 12:32 am

x86-64 was created by amd in 2000....
its 16 years later catch up to modern times please :)

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Re: Friday facts #158 - The end of the 32 bit era

Post by jjcf89 » Sat Oct 01, 2016 1:12 am

hoho wrote:
Masterfox wrote:Actually, this is not true. My PC still has a 32-bit processor, an AMD Sempron 140 and still is able to play factorio with bobs mods. So that is really just not true.
Sempron 140 is a 64bit CPU:
http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/K10/AMD-S ... OX%29.html
Apparently not all of the semprons where 64-bit..
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/how-to-i ... pron-cpus/

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Re: Friday facts #158 - The end of the 32 bit era

Post by PacifyerGrey » Sat Oct 01, 2016 5:06 am

Microsoft released 32 bit Windows 10 because their intention is to force upgrading all previous windows versions to Windows 10 no matter the hardware people had before it.
And weirdly Microsoft itself still has not removed recommendation to use 32 bit version of Office software.

There were several niche systems that did not support 64 bits like Intel Atom series etc. But those were never intended to be used for games but more for integrated stuff like thin clients etc.
Working in corporate IT I have noticed the tendancy and started buying new PCs with 64 bit Windows since 2007 so it is 9 years now. Last year I have trashed the last remaints of computers with Windows XP (surely 32bit as 64bit Windows XP was never really supported). I just had to pay to a company to throw them away (as opposed to ability to sell them).

As to migrating from Windows XP 32bit to 64bit - I would strongly discourage this as the last never worked fine. If your hardware is that bad you should not aim for playing new games. Windows XP was discontinued in 2013 for a reason so please don't expect anyone to continue supporting it when Microsoft itself stopped it. Feel free to migrate to a newer versions. Windows 10 has surprisingly high copatibility with old systems as performs much better on them compared to any previous version. If the value is the problem just move to Linux and be happy.

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Re: Friday facts #158 - The end of the 32 bit era

Post by hoho » Sat Oct 01, 2016 5:56 am

Masterfox wrote:Oh well, I guess thanks to the help of some forum members, I am gonna have a talk with the kind person who once set up my PC. Side note? If I install WinXP64 over WinXP32, will I keep all my files?
Again, if you're low on money and only want to use 64bit OS for Factorio, feel free to get Linux. It can be installed next to Windows without much issues. Modern installers are arguably easier to use than Windows installer and unless something REALLY weird happens, you'll keep all your stuff.

jjcf89 wrote:
hoho wrote:
Masterfox wrote:Actually, this is not true. My PC still has a 32-bit processor, an AMD Sempron 140 and still is able to play factorio with bobs mods. So that is really just not true.
Sempron 140 is a 64bit CPU:
http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/K10/AMD-S ... OX%29.html
Apparently not all of the semprons where 64-bit..
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/how-to-i ... pron-cpus/
Not all Semprons
Yes all Sempron 140's :)

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Re: Friday facts #158 - The end of the 32 bit era

Post by ssilk » Sat Oct 01, 2016 9:17 am

I think it is possible to have curves without extra straight tile, we "just" need other sets of curves.

See this thread: viewtopic.php?f=80&t=19953 New types of rails (curves, s-curves ...)

Image
I interpret this as one single image that is needed. In 4 directions.
Not saying it is easy, but possible it is.
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Re: Friday facts #158 - The end of the 32 bit era

Post by ssilk » Sat Oct 01, 2016 9:34 am

SomeDuder wrote:Anyone that, in the year 2016, is complaining about a lack of a 32-bit executable for a videogame should be taken out back and shot.
Sorry for double posting. I just saw that yet.
This kind of humor is not fun in that case. I want nobody to be laughed down if he is not wearing the newest shoe-fashion. Nobody should be harmed if his hair is too long or too short. And nobody should be shot for not having an up-to-date computer.
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Re: Friday facts #158 - The end of the 32 bit era

Post by kinnom » Sat Oct 01, 2016 2:39 pm

o well. I nead a better laptop anyway. my only regret is that I haven't managed to boil water with the cpu.
no yes yes no yes no yes yes

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Re: Friday facts #158 - The end of the 32 bit era

Post by Seiga » Sat Oct 01, 2016 8:19 pm

Since rail sprites are being worked on, though this suggestion would imply more code work, could we potentially cross our fingers for alternative rail ties used on rail sprites that are fully laid over concrete floor tiles as a context sensitive appearance? Something like these low-vibration concrete rail ties, or any sort of ballast-less track for that dockyard/inner city look.

Image

Seeing rails like this running through the inner parts of my factory would be just the tastiest thing. I also swear I've seen this suggested before by someone else (after reading back through, in this thread no less!), and I thought it was a good idea then too. But obviously this is just a pipe dream of a gigantic train nerd, but could be an optional solution for people looking to make that tidier look for complex junctions.

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