Friday Facts #143 - Nat Punching Again

Regular reports on Factorio development.
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Afforess
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Re: Friday Facts #143 - Nat Punching Again

Post by Afforess » Sat Jun 18, 2016 11:56 pm

A delayed game is eventually good, a bad game is bad forever.

/thread

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Re: Friday Facts #143 - Nat Punching Again

Post by ssilk » Sun Jun 19, 2016 1:03 am

Sebb767 wrote: The "old" definitions:
Alpha: Internal tests (like 0.13 right now)
Beta: Public test (like 0.12)
Release: Feature-complete tested product.

The new defintions:
Alpha: It shitty and buggy and we need an excuse*.
Beta: We're kinda on developing it, still don't blame us about bugs. And don't expect anything.
Release: F**k that shit, I'm out.
Factorio definition:
Alpha unstable: Release (like 0.13 right now). May be completely broken. Time for modders to fix their mods. Everything can change. Everything can brake.
Alpha stable: If you want to play a stable game (0.11, 0.12...). Only serious bugs of latest version where fixed. Lamers play only these.
Beta (estimated 2020): Well, when all features are included, we have a proper end-game and API won't change anymore.
Release (estimated 2026): This piece of software is so stable, that it survives the crash of my harddisk. :)
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Re: Friday Facts #143 - Nat Punching Again

Post by Rythe » Sun Jun 19, 2016 5:13 am

Yes, Factorio is a good game and people need quality vacation time and etc. etc.

But when I heard the June 1st goal for 0.13, I expected things to slip because of bugs and how development of these things go, so a week or two after. I didn't expect June 1st to be the devs sharing an internal headfake with the external playerbase so they'd go through the process of locking down 0.13 specs and completing them. Which is to say, that was never a real release date, and it shouldn't have been shared with us as such. Which is a lot of the discontent about how things went, discontent that I share.

Do try to publicize real release dates in the future. Also try to update those release dates whenever it becomes clear that you're not going to make the timeframe you set previously. Make those updated timetables public weeks before the no-longer-a-release date hits, not days after.

This is basic schedule management and public relations.

And while I'm sharing my discontent, grumblemuttermultiplayerdelayingand/orruininggoodthingsmuttergrumble.

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Re: Friday Facts #143 - Nat Punching Again

Post by devilwarriors » Sun Jun 19, 2016 8:37 am

Afforess wrote:A delayed game is eventually good, a bad game is bad forever.

/thread
Except tons of delayed game end up being total shit anyway. I thought we all learned a lesson with Duke nukem forever..

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Re: Friday Facts #143 - Nat Punching Again

Post by Ghoulish » Sun Jun 19, 2016 12:55 pm

devilwarriors wrote:
Afforess wrote:A delayed game is eventually good, a bad game is bad forever.

/thread
Except tons of delayed game end up being total shit anyway. I thought we all learned a lesson with Duke nukem forever..
Hardly relevant here. That game had 4 different developers and took 15 years to produce across those different developers, which is clearly why is was such a mess.

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Re: Friday Facts #143 - Nat Punching Again

Post by brunzenstein » Sun Jun 19, 2016 1:23 pm

Ghoulish wrote:
devilwarriors wrote:
Afforess wrote:A delayed game is eventually good, a bad game is bad forever.

/thread
Except tons of delayed game end up being total shit anyway. I thought we all learned a lesson with Duke nukem forever..
Hardly relevant here. That game had 4 different developers and took 15 years to produce across those different developers, which is clearly why is was such a mess.
Sorry - where is the mess?
The product (even thought only Alpha) Factorio is super stable, is as such highly addictive especially for intelligent folks and commercial quite successful.

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Re: Friday Facts #143 - Nat Punching Again

Post by joseph222 » Sun Jun 19, 2016 1:36 pm

I don't mind the delay but please make the game as bug-free as possible :D :D :D

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Re: Friday Facts #143 - Nat Punching Again

Post by Phillip_Lynx » Sun Jun 19, 2016 1:45 pm

brunzenstein wrote:
Ghoulish wrote:
devilwarriors wrote:
Afforess wrote:A delayed game is eventually good, a bad game is bad forever.

/thread
Except tons of delayed game end up being total shit anyway. I thought we all learned a lesson with Duke nukem forever..
Hardly relevant here. That game had 4 different developers and took 15 years to produce across those different developers, which is clearly why is was such a mess.
Sorry - where is the mess?
The product (even thought only Alpha) Factorio is super stable, is as such highly addictive especially for intelligent folks and commercial quite successful.
He dosnt mean factorio but duke nukem forever ...

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Re: Friday Facts #143 - Nat Punching Again

Post by brunzenstein » Sun Jun 19, 2016 2:44 pm

joseph222 wrote:I don't mind the delay but please make the game as bug-free as possible :D :D :D
I go with that statement!

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Re: Friday Facts #143 - Nat Punching Again

Post by roy7 » Sun Jun 19, 2016 2:53 pm

I wonder if new maps will store the creator's steam ID so only he can unlock achievements with it? Or can people just share save game files and unlock achievements that way? It'd be annoying to see a lot of that happening. :)

Also any word if you can get achievements in multiplayer vanilla, or only single player vanilla?

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Re: Friday Facts #143 - Nat Punching Again

Post by y.petremann » Sun Jun 19, 2016 4:01 pm

Koub wrote:People, do you prefer to play a game developped by :
1) A company that's expert in communication, hype managing, and stuff, but makes poor games
2) A company that's expert in making an awesome game, but doesn't master the complex mechanisms of communication, buzz making, hypr building and stuff ?

I'm the 2) kind of guy. Honestly, if you're more the 1), what the hell are you doing here ? there are literally thousands of dev studios that hype like pros, know how to communicate, and stuff ... and make bad to very bad games. You should definitely play theirs instead of bombarding goods devs that prefer releasing something playable for the next unstable release.
Please don't make false dilemna to get a better argumentation, it get worse ...

Making a good game is the responsabiliy of thoses working on it, communication is the responsability of the community manager, what you're saying could be resumed as developers do community manager works, good developers works with bad community manager and must make a better game in comparison to the communication, bad game developers works with good community manager and can sell their "shit" ...

But a good community manager can also work with good developers, make awesome games which is pretty rare ... and bad developers could works with bad community managers ... which seem not rare but usually nobody care about these games ...

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Re: Friday Facts #143 - Nat Punching Again

Post by RnMss » Sun Jun 19, 2016 7:49 pm

Afforess wrote:I expected the release to be June 30th (they just said 'June'), so in my opinion, June 27th is 3 days earlier than expected, and 3 days before their previous deadline.

NAT punching is a PITA, so nice work getting that working. I hope NAT's all die in a fire when ipv6 is fully adopted.
IPv6? OMG, I can only wish I could survive that long.

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Re: Friday Facts #143 - Nat Punching Again

Post by Mooncat » Mon Jun 20, 2016 2:01 am

ssilk wrote: Factorio definition:
Alpha unstable: Release (like 0.13 right now). May be completely broken. Time for modders to fix their mods. Everything can change. Everything can brake.
Alpha stable: If you want to play a stable game (0.11, 0.12...). Only serious bugs of latest version where fixed. Lamers play only these.
Beta (estimated 2020): Well, when all features are included, we have a proper end-game and API won't change anymore.
Release (estimated 2026): This piece of software is so stable, that it survives the crash of my harddisk. :)
I guess people are unhappy because, if 0.13 is expected to be possibly completely broken, the devs are using too much time on making sure it doesn't break. xd

That said, I am still happy with my 0.12 map. In fact, I will miss my big factory when I start a new map on 0.13 (and try some new mods).

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Re: Friday Facts #143 - Nat Punching Again

Post by Bizz Keryear » Mon Jun 20, 2016 5:40 am

The hype train has derailed totally ....
Friday Facts #137 - The release scarecrow
Posted by kovarex on 2016-05-06
Hello,
the 1st of June, which is the goal of the 0.13 release
Friday Facts #140 - Soon
Posted by kovarex on 2016-05-27
Hello,
the struggle to finish the latest features and fixes so 0.13 can be in time, or just reasonable delayed
Friday Facts #142 - Playtesting
Posted by kovarex on 2016-06-10
Hello!

Playtesting

Most of this week was spent by switching between playtesting and fixing bugs/issues found when doing so.
Sooo ... Now, June is almost over ... and the last update blog promises the release for 27th ... unless it doesn't work out ... after a few times "likely to be released before next weeks update blog". I haven't played since may ... because the current trains are a pain. And I would have to build them now (in my save) ... so I wait. By my hype train is also derailed ....not just simply derailed but completely off the track ... and fallen of a cliff. Luckily I switched to the steam version so it will update whatever I follow the progress or not.

Not that I would like if they are releasing a version broken beyond repair, so I know it takes the time it needed and they are working hard ... still my hype train is derailed.

(maybe I can get it going for one more week ... but I think there will not be much hype till next week ... and it will totally broken if it doesn't come on 27th)

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Re: Friday Facts #143 - Nat Punching Again

Post by TN_Creator » Mon Jun 20, 2016 7:51 am

Thanks for the good news!

Does anyone know if the saves from 1.12.x will be playable with 1.13?

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Re: Friday Facts #143 - Nat Punching Again

Post by joseph222 » Mon Jun 20, 2016 7:54 am

TN_Creator wrote:Thanks for the good news!

Does anyone know if the saves from 1.12.x will be playable with 1.13?
Of course it will be compatable

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Re: Friday Facts #143 - Nat Punching Again

Post by cpy » Mon Jun 20, 2016 10:59 am

Once again my one month delay theory is proven! :D

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Re: Friday Facts #143 - Nat Punching Again

Post by tekbot » Mon Jun 20, 2016 2:09 pm

cpy wrote:Once again my one month delay theory is proven! :D
be careful with theories like that, or you end up with https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Valve_Time

So far
In the next few weeks
sounds about right, the way things are going.


But watch out or it might become
Hopefully Next Week
I pray that we will never have a situatuion fixed in
Todays Update

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Re: Friday Facts #143 - Nat Punching Again

Post by Islacrusez » Mon Jun 20, 2016 2:26 pm

Bizz Keryear wrote: still my hype train is derailed.

(maybe I can get it going for one more week ...)
My personal recommendation is to not attempt to restart the hype train. It does nothing for you, it only causes disappointment. Ignore these threads, play the game, get the update when it comes. You'll be better off for it. If you expect nothing, every update will be a gift. If you expect the world, every update will be a disappointment.

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Re: Friday Facts #143 - Nat Punching Again

Post by zarte13 » Tue Jun 21, 2016 2:22 pm

8 days left :geek:

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