Friday Facts #128 - Back down to earth

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Re: Friday Facts #128 - Back down to earth

Postby MrWilliam932 » Wed Mar 23, 2016 2:21 pm

Yes, I Think this would be awesome, will make things faster
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Re: Friday Facts #128 - Back down to earth

Postby LCCX » Wed Mar 23, 2016 5:02 pm

Yes, the loader is a great idea for the late game.

Late game should eventually become more strategic, with less micromanagement.
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Re: Friday Facts #128 - Back down to earth

Postby mikeyp.7 » Thu Mar 24, 2016 4:06 pm

I like the idea of the loader being the inserter version of express belt. That would mean to me:

Uses lubricant to making it.

Works like a inserter but can use two arms to load both sides at once, this would make it twice as fast as a fast inserter without having the arm moving to fast.


On a side note why does the underground express belt not use lubricant in its recipie?
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Re: Friday Facts #128 - Back down to earth

Postby Kazaanh » Mon Mar 28, 2016 10:10 pm

Definitely no.

It removes the entire fun of designing and planning your factory.
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Re: Friday Facts #128 - Back down to earth

Postby ratchetfreak » Tue Mar 29, 2016 8:03 am

Kazaanh wrote:Definitely no.

It removes the entire fun of designing and planning your factory.

loading/unloading and balancing outputs and inputs is more than just 1 inventory, most of the time you will be balancing a lot of machines against each other.
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Re: Friday Facts #128 - Back down to earth

Postby Avechat » Fri Apr 01, 2016 10:52 am

I think, the loader isn't a good idea. I like to play with complex setups and balancing things. Having loader would make things easier, but less enjoyable.
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Re: Friday Facts #128 - Back down to earth

Postby ajm.nethunt » Fri Apr 01, 2016 1:27 pm

I really, really want this. I hate using belts end-game because the mass-moving of raw resources becomes so bottlenecked at the inserters because the stack size bonus can't apply when inserters pick up one thing at a time from a belt! Also belts are just more messy in my opinion late-game - using bots is far easier to deal with and I don't have to fiddle around with belt paths / placement. If belts were far superior to bots at moving raw resources around by using loaders as shown, I would actually consider using belts again in the mid-late game. As long as this can only load/unload storage containers, I don't see any problem here - inserts will still be vital for interacting with fabricators, roboports, gun turrets, chem plants, ...

Just put loaders behind a technology unlock, and make them use electricity comparable to the fastest inserter since they are doing more work, but only very specific work (loading / unloading containers only)
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Re: Friday Facts #128 - Back down to earth

Postby Zeblote » Fri Apr 01, 2016 1:31 pm

Kazaanh wrote:Definitely no.

It removes the entire fun of designing and planning your factory.


Definitely yes.

It removes the entire hassle of inserters being too slow for late game use and makes belts more fun to use.
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Re: Friday Facts #128 - Back down to earth

Postby Taehl » Mon Apr 04, 2016 9:07 am

The Loader is very interesting and would be oh-so useful. However, in its current state, I also feel it's overpowered... Crafting, electricity, even pollution, those hurdles are minor. On the other hand, one thing I really dread in a cramped factory is needing to make room for a large-sized building like a Roboport. What if the Loader, instead of 2x1, were 2x3? This would also interfere with making (simple, small, but very sufficient) solid lines of chests for storage. Or maybe you could do something strange like have the items come out (only) one side instead of the front, for added awkwardness?

Alternately or in addition, perhaps Loaders drive the aliens mad like radars do. Fun! ;)

Also, can you use a Loader to transfer directly between boxes? How fast does that go? Can you use a belt to feed it items from the side? Could Inserters interact with it? Could I put one feeding into my wire assembler or other building? Load a Roboport with bots and tools? As for logistics network, I suppose the most useful thing to know is its current state: Not loading, loading, or halted due to its output being full.

Hm... What if instead of patiently halting, Loaders blow up when overloaded? Imagine them occasionally popping like fuses throughout your factory, needing replacement - it would make the Roboport feel even more labor-saving.
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Re: Friday Facts #128 - Back down to earth

Postby Kazaanh » Wed Apr 06, 2016 11:48 pm

Zeblote wrote:
Kazaanh wrote:Definitely no.

It removes the entire fun of designing and planning your factory.


Definitely yes.

It removes the entire hassle of inserters being too slow for late game use and makes belts more fun to use.


Usually stuff like this renders the previous tech/items useless and outclassed. And I don't want to artificaly limit myself to not use the newer more efficient and easy stuffs, like drones ( by here I mean using drones instead of corveyor belts, not for crafting , not repairing or construction these features quite helps the player to miminize macro'ing in the late game)

As long as it will be as a valid alternative, then I am okay with this *loader*. Maybe its time to make Fast Inserted mk2? Or long-handed-fast inserter? It should be a choice not a mandatory upgrade, even burner inserters have use. There are need to be some serious pluses and minuses for using them.

I dont know it just seems that Factorio is getting more and more easier,by addition of items like this. Removing any kind planning and optimizing your factory. Why bother with 10 items when you can slap 1 and it does job 10x better. This is where the most fun comes, at least in my experience. I know everyone plays with his own playstyle , I don't hate that. I am okay with this as long as you have fun playing that way.
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Re: Friday Facts #128 - Back down to earth

Postby Grazz » Wed Apr 13, 2016 4:05 am

Late game is all about moving resources in to feed the factory, this loader will simply throw away a chunk of it. Honestly guys, there is no weather in the game, there are 2 types of power plants, the end game is just launching rockets over and over, your locomotives act like steam engines but look like diesel... I can think of a lot of things I'd prefer you to work on rather than condensing train stations
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Re: Friday Facts #128 - Back down to earth

Postby brunzenstein » Wed Apr 13, 2016 5:58 am

Grazz wrote:Late game is all about moving resources in to feed the factory, this loader will simply throw away a chunk of it. Honestly guys, there is no weather in the game, there are 2 types of power plants, the end game is just launching rockets over and over, your locomotives act like steam engines but look like diesel... I can think of a lot of things I'd prefer you to work on rather than condensing train stations

I sign this.
Leave the stations as they are.
Name it: "The current state of stations that is not a bug, it's a feature."
Many factories will seize to work and this will pose more trouble then benefits if you try to force something in, one can easily live without.
Belts need badly improvement they are really hard to get along with them as they are, red /green wires ar hardly visible, stuff in the network is basically invisible and track layers need improvement. The problem with the endgame is - there isn't any worth talking about.
Besides the icons are overall late 1960 design.
Still - I love the game as much as my wife hates it - she is asking around for a good divorce lawyer bcs im more with Factorio then with her:-)
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Re: Friday Facts #128 - Back down to earth

Postby equitime77 » Fri Apr 15, 2016 6:42 am

Im probably a bit out of date with this comment. I think this could be an interesting and useful item. I doubt that it would be used much with trains because unless they are smart loaders they would be useless. If you had a train carriage loaded with ammunition etc and also ore you dont want to be unloading the ammo and ore at the same time. If its a straight forward ore train then I they would be useful.
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Re: Friday Facts #128 - Back down to earth

Postby ratchetfreak » Fri Apr 15, 2016 7:47 am

equitime77 wrote:Im probably a bit out of date with this comment. I think this could be an interesting and useful item. I doubt that it would be used much with trains because unless they are smart loaders they would be useless. If you had a train carriage loaded with ammunition etc and also ore you dont want to be unloading the ammo and ore at the same time. If its a straight forward ore train then I they would be useful.

most people use trains for transporting bulk ores,

also there is nothing stoping you from using a buffer chest still using a smart/filter inserter and a loader from the bufferchest
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Re: Friday Facts #128 - Back down to earth

Postby toramo » Fri Apr 15, 2016 9:28 am

Hello there :)

From my point of view, I can see a useful application about loader.
It's finally the same thing that we already have... It is easy to elaborate something with inserter to feed a belt (even blue).

So, the question is, is it a quality of life improvment ?
Yes, because it makes thing easier to load a belt from a chest compared to inserter.

Is it a replacement for inserter ?
I don't think so, as long as the loader can be connected only to a chest, we'll still have to load all the other stuffs with inserter anyway. The main point in my opinion is that loader can be (must be) connected only to a chest and Nothing else.
Also 3 level of loader, relative to the 3 level of belt should be created in this case.

Is it a priority ? a fully wanted feature ?
For my use of belt, no. I would prefer to see more belt management first... Some example
- Switcher : invert the product position on the belt.
- I would like to be able to orientate subterrean belt in and out module with R. instead of doing that with the belt connected to it.
- I would want a connected belt to the circuit which can "count" the amount of product running by it (useful to create an alarm system if somehing goes wrong with the production) or at least, sending a signal with the type and qty of product actually on this belt.
It can be done with something like the train signal module that we can put near the belt and that we can connect to the circuit.

my 2 cents :)
Sorry for my English !
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Re: Friday Facts #128 - Back down to earth

Postby vaderciya » Fri Apr 15, 2016 2:44 pm

Ugh this thread... too many weird people talking about weird things that aren't even related to the point of the post anymore...
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Re: Friday Facts #128 - Back down to earth

Postby Zeblote » Fri Apr 15, 2016 4:26 pm

equitime77 wrote:Im probably a bit out of date with this comment. I think this could be an interesting and useful item. I doubt that it would be used much with trains because unless they are smart loaders they would be useless. If you had a train carriage loaded with ammunition etc and also ore you dont want to be unloading the ammo and ore at the same time. If its a straight forward ore train then I they would be useful.



Well why do you have multiple things in one wagon?
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Re: Friday Facts #128 - Back down to earth

Postby malecord » Fri Apr 15, 2016 4:46 pm

Zeblote wrote:
equitime77 wrote:Im probably a bit out of date with this comment. I think this could be an interesting and useful item. I doubt that it would be used much with trains because unless they are smart loaders they would be useless. If you had a train carriage loaded with ammunition etc and also ore you dont want to be unloading the ammo and ore at the same time. If its a straight forward ore train then I they would be useful.



Well why do you have multiple things in one wagon?


Every supply train uses a single wagon: there is just no need to have a wagon for munition, one for walls, one for turrets, etc etc. The number of items that are really consumed is low that it would just be a colossal waste of resources.

Anyway some people instead of having a dedicated supply train use their ore transportation trains to resupply their mining sites. The mechanism is pretty much the same: they just sacrifice some ore transport capacity to hold the supplies in one wagon.

The loader could potentially not fit into their setup for what concerns the unloading part.
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Re: Friday Facts #128 - Back down to earth

Postby Zeblote » Fri Apr 15, 2016 5:53 pm

I see, but why do you need loaders on that wagon? I imagined them more for things like unloading ore to double belts, etc.
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Re: Friday Facts #128 - Back down to earth

Postby Dogone » Mon Apr 25, 2016 9:43 pm

I vote "God yes" On the Loader. At this point, logistics bots are almost infinitely better than inserter/belt chains in the late game because they're fast and hold multiple items... and after I have 100k logistics bots there's no point in having anything else.
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