Friday Facts #128 - Back down to earth

Regular reports on Factorio development.
User avatar
Xuhybrid
Inserter
Inserter
Posts: 48
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 4:41 pm
Contact:

Re: Friday Facts #128 - Back down to earth

Post by Xuhybrid »

The Loader is way too strong. While i love the idea of it, it would completely upset all of the existing balance to the point where there's no need to use inserters any more.

Zeblote
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 972
Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2014 11:55 am
Contact:

Re: Friday Facts #128 - Back down to earth

Post by Zeblote »

Xuhybrid wrote:The Loader is way too strong. While i love the idea of it, it would completely upset all of the existing balance to the point where there's no need to use inserters any more.
You'd still need to use tons of inserters to put stuff in/out of assembling machines?

AntonioModer
Manual Inserter
Manual Inserter
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2016 7:23 pm
Contact:

Re: Friday Facts #128 - Back down to earth

Post by AntonioModer »

My answer: Loader - yes.

In Factorio I play a couple of days.
But I think that the thing is a good idea.
I thought of such a thing.
Inserters sometime look unrealistic, clumsy, needless.
It is much easier to use this compact thing.

It is necessary save in game inserters and loaders.
Let players choose that it is better to use.

I am glad that the game is progress.
Last edited by AntonioModer on Sat Mar 05, 2016 9:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Carble
Manual Inserter
Manual Inserter
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2016 5:11 am
Contact:

Re: Friday Facts #128 - Back down to earth

Post by Carble »

I think these would be useful, but maybe balance it for use with specific materials. So, for example, you could only use them with raw items that are naturally used in vast quantities, but don't allow them to be used with more complex items. Thus transporting large number of complex items via train would still require the use of intricate insterter setups.

Zeblote
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 972
Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2014 11:55 am
Contact:

Re: Friday Facts #128 - Back down to earth

Post by Zeblote »

Carble wrote:I think these would be useful, but maybe balance it for use with specific materials.
That would go against all logic in factorio, there are only 2 categories (fluid and solid things) and normally a machine can handle anything.

Dezaro
Manual Inserter
Manual Inserter
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2015 7:42 pm
Contact:

Re: Friday Facts #128 - Back down to earth

Post by Dezaro »

I love the concept but I think I could be balanced pretty easily.

(Acknowlging these probably aren't original thought)
I think it should be combined it with a storage box and call it a hopper. Hoppers are real world examples of dumping raw materials storing them and then transferring them to a conveyor.

So in my opinion it's not overpowered as long as we don't use it for manufactured goods.

stardruid
Manual Inserter
Manual Inserter
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2015 4:43 am
Contact:

Re: Friday Facts #128 - Back down to earth

Post by stardruid »

As long as you can only use loaders like hoppers in real life to put things in and out of containers like chest and trains I think they would be perfect. This would let inserts be used for the more delicate work of inserting materials into machines and pulling them out etc. I personally have always hate the complex crap you have to build around trains to load or unload them. Realistically for stuff like coal, copper, iron etc you just pull them over a hopper, open the lower section of them and rapidly dump the contents. After that is when things like insertions etc are needed.

What I really love to see with the loaders in such a case are trailers + flat bed train carts + cranes for finished goods like circuits etc. So you for bulk stuff you would use the loader and a bulk train cart. For finished stuff you woudl need to load the "trailer" section like in real life, then use the crane to put it on the train, then unload the trailer at it's destination. In such a case then insert would still be need to load the trailer sections with more delicate finished goods you can't just drop into a train cart. This would allow you to take your time load and unload the trailers, specially when some day when we get other train related stuff like "wait till full", "wait till empty" etc.

ScionoicS
Manual Inserter
Manual Inserter
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2016 10:42 pm
Contact:

Re: Friday Facts #128 - Back down to earth

Post by ScionoicS »

Along the same lines as this "Loader" I've had an idea. A device that would pull from an underground belt beneath it and then output to the arrow. There are a lot of ways the underground layer of Factorio could be better used.

I do love the idea of a belt loading device in general. If it does seem OP and affect game progression too much, then resource costs and speed it operates at could all be changed. Belt loaders should require a considerable amount of lubricant in their recipe and that would definitely give it a cost to benefit consideration. Ultimately, I believe there are opportunities for direct belt loading without ruining the already established tech.

Would love to see a box which lifts from an underground belt passing underneath it too.

vanatteveldt
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 938
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2015 11:44 am
Contact:

Re: Friday Facts #128 - Back down to earth

Post by vanatteveldt »

ScionoicS wrote:Along the same lines as this "Loader" I've had an idea. A device that would pull from an underground belt beneath it and then output to the arrow. There are a lot of ways the underground layer of Factorio could be better used.
This is actually a good way to tie in with my earlier suggestion for hopper/feeder: a hopper car or chest can output onto an underground belt. This is probably even possible with a mod (not that I've ever modded anything...)

NorNogaAdmin
Inserter
Inserter
Posts: 31
Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2015 4:58 am
Contact:

Re: Friday Facts #128 - Back down to earth

Post by NorNogaAdmin »

after thinking a lot about this and reading the entire thread, I feel that loaders would be a decent addiction to the game, if made within reason.... the proposal only shows using them with chests, and if it stays like that, where you can only use them with a chest, then they would be a-OK for any purposes that I can think of... if you think of it, the only time that they would be outputting a full stream of items would be when you have MANY items coming into the input chests, and when does that really happen?... however, i would propose that it would be more of a 1x3 structure mostly because at that point is when the major redesigns must happen and power usage is a must!
00110001 00100000 01101001 01100110 00100000 01111001 01101111 01110101 00100000 01100011 01100001 01101110 00100000 01110010 01100101 01100001 01100100 00100000 01101101 01100101

User avatar
Drury
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 753
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2014 8:01 pm
Contact:

Re: Friday Facts #128 - Back down to earth

Post by Drury »

vanatteveldt wrote:
ScionoicS wrote:Along the same lines as this "Loader" I've had an idea. A device that would pull from an underground belt beneath it and then output to the arrow. There are a lot of ways the underground layer of Factorio could be better used.
This is actually a good way to tie in with my earlier suggestion for hopper/feeder: a hopper car or chest can output onto an underground belt. This is probably even possible with a mod (not that I've ever modded anything...)
Oh this is amazing. I love underground belts, this would make me love them even more.
Image

RMJ
Long Handed Inserter
Long Handed Inserter
Posts: 58
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:58 am
Contact:

Re: Friday Facts #128 - Back down to earth

Post by RMJ »

In regards to stuff being OP. wouldn one way of balancing stuff, just have this option use up a lot more power than say robots.

Ive never gotten really far. But the idea seems cool. But obviously balance is important in Factorio. What really makes this game so great, is the good balance of work vs reward. You feel like you earned the right to be lazy :D

Dark_Lightning
Burner Inserter
Burner Inserter
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2015 1:34 am
Contact:

Re: Friday Facts #128 - Back down to earth

Post by Dark_Lightning »

I think the "loader" would be an excellent late game item, just so long at it comes at a balanced price as you said. I would love to see it in the game!
Dark

Unic
Inserter
Inserter
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2015 10:39 am
Contact:

Re: Friday Facts #128 - Back down to earth

Post by Unic »

Maybe there should be a poll or something like this. I don't like the idea, but i think there should be some optimizations:

What are you thinking about a stacking/sorter Machine. Maybe big as a factory where the belt is moving through, but instead of storing things in a chest it will stack items of the same kind (or you can build custom stacks). These Stacks can be taken from the inserters at once.

Maybe the bigger sorter can take 2 Belts and output the content on on belt in a stacked form.

eformo
Long Handed Inserter
Long Handed Inserter
Posts: 78
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2014 12:27 pm
Contact:

Re: Friday Facts #128 - Back down to earth

Post by eformo »

22 pages... TL, DR. But I got through 4 pages. I saw a lot of claims that X is the whole point of the game, where X is something I don't much care about (though I love the game).

My two bits, the loader would be a great mod. Then people can turn on or off at their discretion.

Fatmice
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 808
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2014 11:03 pm
Contact:

Re: Friday Facts #128 - Back down to earth

Post by Fatmice »

Don't worry about them. They should add the loader/unloader as prototyped and see how long before these other people can refuse to use it. :lol: You know they all holler OP but internally they are itching to get their filthy hands on them.
Maintainer and developer of Atomic Power. See here for more information.
Current release: 0.6.6 - Requires 0.14.x
Example build - Requires 0.14.x

Proply
Manual Inserter
Manual Inserter
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2016 1:59 am
Contact:

Re: Friday Facts #128 - Back down to earth

Post by Proply »

I like the loader. Don't be afraid to add new parts based because you fear it may simplify the game. With the right balancing (cost/tech tree location) almost any part can be justified. Also, the tech tree is a very effective way to "hide" complicated parts and mechanisms from newbie players so that they don't feel overwhelmed; don't be afraid to add more complexity to the late game! Without addition of experimental or innovative new parts/systems this game will inevitably stagnate.

GammaGaming
Manual Inserter
Manual Inserter
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2016 2:11 am
Contact:

Re: Friday Facts #128 - Back down to earth

Post by GammaGaming »

I like the loaders because I am a lame noob who loves easy things. You should probably change the name because they don't load, they unload.

For balance you should maybe make them have to burn coal and you can upgrade them to be electric-powered. More so it's a hassle than power drain.

:)

Cbrad24
Inserter
Inserter
Posts: 29
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2015 4:36 am
Contact:

Re: Friday Facts #128 - Back down to earth

Post by Cbrad24 »

I can see chaining these in a line to create insanely fast horizontal transport, considering they teleport items from the end of the belt, through the chest and out to the other belt in 1-2 ticks.
Bet I could make it run faster than a train 8-)

User avatar
Drury
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 753
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2014 8:01 pm
Contact:

Re: Friday Facts #128 - Back down to earth

Post by Drury »

Cbrad24 wrote:I can see chaining these in a line to create insanely fast horizontal transport, considering they teleport items from the end of the belt, through the chest and out to the other belt in 1-2 ticks.
Bet I could make it run faster than a train 8-)
Then they make them work like belts that spawn items on their chest end and you're screwed :P
Image

Post Reply

Return to “News”