Friday Facts #381 - Space Platforms

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ChefOfRamen
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Re: Friday Facts #381 - Space Platforms

Post by ChefOfRamen »

Very nice! I like where this is headed. It seems from one of the images that we will be able to flip the inputs on the engines? Will we be able to filter asteroid collectors?

Disallowing logistic robots on space platforms makes sense logically, since they can't fly in a vacuum, but it seems a bit strange that the platform can just build stuff on its own. This might be too hard to implement, but I'm thinking there could be some kind of rails on the space platform for worker robots to attach to, and then these rails could have severely limited throughput to limit the feasibility of logistic bots.

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Re: Friday Facts #381 - Space Platforms

Post by plepper1 »

Love it! I can't wait to play with it!

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Re: Friday Facts #381 - Space Platforms

Post by FuryoftheStars »

ChefOfRamen wrote:
Fri Oct 20, 2023 3:41 pm
It seems from one of the images that we will be able to flip the inputs on the engines?
If you'll note from one of the other images, the engines have 4 pipe connectors, 1 of each of 2 types per side. In the image with the line of engines all hooked together, the engines are offset from each other, thus aligning one of the connections, while the other still needs to run an underground pipe.
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Re: Friday Facts #381 - Space Platforms

Post by benmachine »

The new space science situation sounds cool, but do satellites become basically useless pretty quickly? Seems like you might build only like five ever?

TheBrain0110
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Re: Friday Facts #381 - Space Platforms

Post by TheBrain0110 »

It's obvious to compare Space Age's space platforms to Space Exploration's spaceships. While they're both chunks of metal traversing space, their gameplay is very different. Thanks to the asteroid processing, space platforms can operate completely independently without the need to refuel, and it also automatically means they are little (or gigantic) space factories, where space really matters. Due to modding API limitations, SE's spaceships get rather complicated to automate with combinators and so on, in contrast space platforms automatic scheduling is literally as simple as automating trains.
This comparison actually raises some interesting gameplay questions, because Space Exploration has both static orbital platforms that you start with when first getting to space, and then the interplanetary spaceships are unlocked much later. You spend a lot more time building large orbital factories than you do with the spaceships really.

The Space Age platforms seem to be a combination of both, and skips the intermediate stage.

I wonder if an eventual Space-Age expansion compatible version of the Space Exploration mod would continue to use its own static orbital platforms, but replace the spaceships that dock with it with the Space Age versions instead?

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Re: Friday Facts #381 - Space Platforms

Post by kreeg »

I haven't played Space Exploration but I get a feeling that Space Age is similar to the mod. Is this true?

If i wanted to play Space Exploration I would, but I do not because the mod has never interested me in the slightest.

Please tell me Space Age is not similar to Space exploration. I will be extremely disappointed if Wube is making Space Exploration 2.

kulg
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Re: Friday Facts #381 - Space Platforms

Post by kulg »

I have one question...

Can we transport goods between space platforms? Because my first thought was to make specialized platforms, some for crafting and sciencing, and others that are purely for transporting goods between planets. They might not even have fuel crafting on them, they'd just take as many supplies as they need to get from one platform to another.

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Re: Friday Facts #381 - Space Platforms

Post by eiis1000 »

Really cool stuff! Would also be cool to see some mid-/late-space-age tech à la small modular reactors (SMRs); obviously given the scale of nuclear reactors in Factorio they're already basically SMRs, but the specific thing I'm interested is the low-to-none water consumption. Alternatively, some recondensing system for the steam would make a LOT of sense in space (no sane space-based nuclear reactor design vents steam in non-emergency situations) and make such power much more viable; feels very odd for "space turbine" to be the same object as "terrestrial turbine" given the wildly different performance characteristics of turbines in vacuum.

Also, gun turrets in space? This feels a bit absurd; like in the turbine case, the idea that bullets and turrets meant for massacring bugs in atmo should be used for destroying hunks of iron in space feels very weird. (OTOH, the idea that terrestrial laser turrets should work in space makes total sense.)

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Re: Friday Facts #381 - Space Platforms

Post by FuryoftheStars »

kreeg wrote:
Fri Oct 20, 2023 4:24 pm
I haven't played Space Exploration but I get a feeling that Space Age is similar to the mod. Is this true?

If i wanted to play Space Exploration I would, but I do not because the mod has never interested me in the slightest.

Please tell me Space Age is not similar to Space exploration. I will be extremely disappointed if Wube is making Space Exploration 2.
This has been covered before, but Wube always had the intentions of bringing us to space at some point. They just decided to make it a separate expansion onto the game rather than dragging out the pre-1.0 stage even further. Just because the SE mod came out before they were able to get there doesn't mean this is SE2 or that they shouldn't have done it.
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Re: Friday Facts #381 - Space Platforms

Post by pejsek »

Punishbear wrote:
Fri Oct 20, 2023 2:12 pm
Was momentum considered? In space, nothing is slowing down your spacecraft once you turn off your thrusters. From this FFF, it seems a platform slows down once you turn off its thrusters. And I wonder if you choose to ignore this for gameplay purposes or if there is some braking force applied.
I thought the same thing. I noticed it and considered mentioning it and I wonder if that will be implemented. Maybe adding some form of reverse-thrusting to slow down the platform which would consume the same amount of fuel just like the forward-thrusting.

But if we want to be real pedants, then we can also point out that the belts themselves would fail to carry any items if the platform is not accelerating.

Rammix
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Re: Friday Facts #381 - Space Platforms

Post by Rammix »

Will we eventually be able to build a Dyson sphere? :idea: :roll:
:lol:
pejsek wrote:
Fri Oct 20, 2023 4:45 pm
But if we want to be real pedants, then we can also point out that the belts themselves would fail to carry any items if the platform is not accelerating.
They'd just need straps.

-scv-
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Re: Friday Facts #381 - Space Platforms

Post by -scv- »

incredible, I want to play

why does 1 “hand” grab 5 units of fragments per exit (first pictures), and the legendary one grabs 1 unit per exit for each “hand”?

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Re: Friday Facts #381 - Space Platforms

Post by Tertius »

The grabbing tentacles somehow look alive. Nice work. The whole platform.

Jarin
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Re: Friday Facts #381 - Space Platforms

Post by Jarin »

Really liking what I see here. Don't know about that "no storage for buffering" bit though. Seems like that's going to make things like ammo and fuel processing a nightmare.

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Re: Friday Facts #381 - Space Platforms

Post by dee- »

Regarding the "magic build technology" placing the surface structures / buildings on the surface by ghost building; is there already an official dev answer, how the lore is on this?

As a way-out and additional logistics exercise I'dlike to add the idea of having another surface building, akin to a large Canadarm, which gets placed on the surface and is able to put down actual buildings on designated ghost areas.

Of course it has a maximum reach so you#d have to place several of these on the surface to be able to cover the whole area.
Like the large power poles cover distance or substations having an area effect.

That building could provide some crazy spacy animated visuals with a long arm reaching all across the surface and placing or repairing stuff, like a mixture of Spidertron and an Inserter.

Zaflis
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Re: Friday Facts #381 - Space Platforms

Post by Zaflis »

Something they yet didn't show us is how 2 or more platforms dock with each other. If they do act as trains i assume it's possible. You would likely have 1 platform in Nauvis orbit without engines acting as a base.

The new rocket silo UI wasn't shown but i assume it now gets a platform destination for where to send the cargo? But if that's true, there must be some threshold on how far from Nauvis that ship is.

Is it some kind of "cargo type" selection if you want to send satellite, platform starter or items? Or all 3 at once in that large cargo space? Then it would somehow create new platform next to the old one?

But if it was possible to put satellites in that cargo space then one would assume several can be loaded at once which clearly shouldn't be the case based on what was said.
Last edited by Zaflis on Fri Oct 20, 2023 5:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Friday Facts #381 - Space Platforms

Post by mrchris2000 »

Might have missed it in this thread, but at the end of the post you mentioned the differences between Space Platforms and Space Ships from the Space Exploration mod. How / are these two things compatible? Will SE continue to work with the expansion or will it be a 2.0 but not expansion thing?

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Re: Friday Facts #381 - Space Platforms

Post by Zaflis »

mrchris2000 wrote:
Fri Oct 20, 2023 5:10 pm
Might have missed it in this thread, but at the end of the post you mentioned the differences between Space Platforms and Space Ships from the Space Exploration mod. How / are these two things compatible? Will SE continue to work with the expansion or will it be a 2.0 but not expansion thing?
Very likely not compatible if just from CPU cost required for running all planets etc. SE might need to create a new rocket silo instead of replacing the vanilla one, otherwise it will conflict. But that's probably it, the orbit surface is likely different than in SA. Ofc also accounting for all recipe changes...

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Re: Friday Facts #381 - Space Platforms

Post by doktorstick »

FuryoftheStars wrote:
Fri Oct 20, 2023 2:36 pm
It's a trade-off, though. Either you have folks complaining about the realism of the platform being its own constructor, or you have folks complaining about the realism of independently floating, small thruster powered objects somehow keeping pace with the rocket propelled platform and updating speeds instantly, even when low on power. The platform method, imo, is better. Is it the best? Maybe, maybe not.
I think it's fair to say realism was killed a long time ago. We live with "Factorio-realism", and it's not a complaint.

Keeping pace? It's only relative. Robots don't have to be thruster powered; we have shield technology. This strongly implies we can manipulate local gravity with a few personal solar panels, which gives them three-dimensional movement. Given that personal shields can stop 300 km/h trains, they likely can accelerate the little buggers, which only needs relative acceleration (since they inherit their velocity from the platform when they leave the roboport). It's not a requirement that spacebots encounter low power, especially with the lore that the entire space platform has power, but under the guise of the new bot tech, they know to recharge before there's a problem. They are spacebots, afterall. And, in the same way that our Nauvis trains (and likely space platform as I don't see it flipping at the halfway point to decelerate from its constant acceleration) can instantly and magically change their velocity, there's no reason the little spacebots can't either.

In short, there's no "Factorio-realism" reason why spacebots can't exist.

Personally, I would prefer bots. It fits "Factorio-realism" better as remote building shouldn't be magical, as in the FFF. Better to be placing ghosts and little bots swarming out to fill in the scaffolding or constructing the factories. And do our platforms not repair damage? Or is it a new healing tech? Or automatic and "assumed" remote building to replace/repair damage? Can repairs only be done at drydock?

For gameplay wise, I greatly look forward to logistic bots. I don't find solving belt puzzles all game "fun". I did it with my main factory ad nauseum. Let me enjoy the fruits of my labor and give me *different* puzzles than forced belts; that was done already.

As an addendum, I liked how Space Exploration handled the planets with respect to bots. Higher wind speeds led to higher bot attrition. This let the player maintain agency in designing a solution to the logistics puzzle on those planets, or by choosing potentially less resource rich planets but more bot-friendly.
Last edited by doktorstick on Fri Oct 20, 2023 5:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Friday Facts #381 - Space Platforms

Post by FuryoftheStars »

mrchris2000 wrote:
Fri Oct 20, 2023 5:10 pm
Might have missed it in this thread, but at the end of the post you mentioned the differences between Space Platforms and Space Ships from the Space Exploration mod. How / are these two things compatible? Will SE continue to work with the expansion or will it be a 2.0 but not expansion thing?
Zaflis wrote:
Fri Oct 20, 2023 5:15 pm
Very likely not compatible if just from CPU cost required for running all planets etc. SE might need to create a new rocket silo instead of replacing the vanilla one, otherwise it will conflict. But that's probably it, the orbit surface is likely different than in SA.
I think this is already addressed here:
viewtopic.php?f=38&t=108380&p=589442#p589442
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