Friday Facts #379 - Abstract rewiring

Regular reports on Factorio development.
FasterJump
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Re: Friday Facts #379 - Abstract rewiring

Post by FasterJump »

Nice to know that red/green wire ingredients doesn't vanish from the world when built/deconstructed.
Pop quiz: can you spot the shadow problem I want to fix next?
Wires being drawn in front of the pole even though the wires should be behind? I believe that this problem will be even more visible with elevated rails.

Happy to hear about abstract objects, it always felt untidy to use remotes.
Last edited by FasterJump on Fri Oct 06, 2023 11:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Friday Facts #379 - Abstract rewiring

Post by Solinya »

kajacx wrote:
Fri Oct 06, 2023 12:42 pm
You can not red wire something from the map, but you could take a blueprint of it, wire it locally, then place the blueprint back over the top, and the wires would magically change. Thats just frustrating and annoying.
Yes finally the devs are addressing this. Please don't stop with the wire connections. You cannot change assembler recipe from map, but you can place one down, set the recipe and then copy-paste it. It's really dumb.

Also changing spliter options or combinator logic or anything else that can be copy-pasted should be doable from the map via a gui.

If you want to argue that it's "unrealistic", then how is pasting it with a blueprint realistic? If you want realism, then pasting a blueprint with a different recipe should mark the entity and the recipe should be changed only after a construction bot flies to it change the recipe.

But either way, please unify this so that you don't need to place an entiry near you, set what you want and then copy it elsewhere, it's just horrible to do.
Especially configuring modules. Even Space Exploration's NavSat mode can't do those remotely (despite letting you set recipes remotely) without additional mod support. But you can cut a remote machine, paste it near you, insert the desired modules, and cut/paste it back.
Upserter wrote:
Fri Oct 06, 2023 8:42 pm
A trick I learned only recently is to set the output filter on a splitter to the deconstruction planner. This is useful when you only have one side of the splitter output connected up, because it prevents items from passing through to the end of the belt on the unconnected side where they would just sit unused. Any item will work for this, but I like to use the deconstruction planner because it would never clash with an actual production item, and it leaves a nice big red square on the splitter, which to me reads symbolically as “no exit”.

With the deconstruction planner becoming an abstract item, will it still be possible to use it in this way?
If not, you can use an alternative that you don't expect to see on a belt. I found the red square ugly, so I've been using spidertrons instead.

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Re: Friday Facts #379 - Abstract rewiring

Post by JD00 »

This has been bothering me for so long
Along with the fact that the wires appear on top of everything no mater what but I'll probably just have to keep staring at that one

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Re: Friday Facts #379 - Abstract rewiring

Post by quyxkh »

Loving pretty much all of this.

Any chance of restoring the shift-rclick clearing of quickbar/inventory blueprints? The scrolling through recent copy/pastes is nice but it's as if selecting anything overwrote your clipboard, that'd get annoying fast if it wasn't what everyone was used to.

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Re: Friday Facts #379 - Abstract rewiring

Post by morsk »

Upserter wrote:
Fri Oct 06, 2023 8:42 pm
With the deconstruction planner becoming an abstract item, will it still be possible to use it in this way?
Even if we lost the option to make these blueprints with the UI, the old blueprints would probably still work, and we could copy the setting from them. I have an old blueprint that used the Ctrl+X tool as the filter in one place, which we can't do anymore, but I think used to be easy to do. The blueprint still works, and I can copy settings from that splitter onto other splitters.

However, I would prefer this be easier to do. Before I'm fairly sure I could just press Ctrl+X to get the tool, and enter it into a filter slot, and it configured the filter. Now this works for Alt+D but not Ctrl+X, and in the future ...

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Re: Friday Facts #379 - Abstract rewiring

Post by Feather »

Can we cycle through different wires by pressing R or R + shift?

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Re: Friday Facts #379 - Abstract rewiring

Post by hopefulfire »

Hey. I created this account just for this friday facts.

I really enjoy factorio, but I've been holding off for the 2.0 release (I know it will be a while lol). I have a suggestion.

You mentioned that the shortcut bar has been expanded in size. I love this, for this reason: I have a 2560x1080 monitor (ultrawide hd). However!
I would really appreciate it if it were possible for the hotbar (and other ui elements) to be movable to the sides, perhaps vertical, perhaps not. The reason is that with ultrawide screens vertical real estate is limited (this is also a problem with Minecraft, however it is greatly alleviated by the fact that peripheral vision of your feet is not much of an issue in first person). Here is some ascii art of what I mean...

Factorio Default

Code: Select all

|------|-----------------------------------------------|-------|
|------|                                               |  map  |
|                                                      |-------|
|                                                              |
|                                                              |
|                                                              |
|                                                              |
|                                                              |
|                  |-----------------------|                   |
|recipies...       |   annoying hotbar     |                   |
|------------------|-----------------------|-------------------|
Factorio Suggestion

Code: Select all

|------|-----------------------------------------------|-------|
|------|                                               |  map  |
|                                                      |-------|
|                                                              |
|                                                              |
|                                                              |
|                                                              |
|                                                              |
|                       easier to see  |-----------------------|
|recipies...           biters, etc...  |     better hotbar     |
|--------------------------------------|-----------------------|
Just a suggestion, I love the game and how you post your development log. It makes me think about how I might make a game someday, and how I'd like to do it like you people!

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Twisted_Code
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Re: Friday Facts #379 - Abstract rewiring

Post by Twisted_Code »

When you started to talk about some of the problems with the old way of handling wire connections, the software engineer in me cringed. I smelled it before you'd started actually describing it, yet the code smell didn't make the feeling any better.
Glad you paid off some of your tech debt, and I'm SO glad there is no longer a cost to rewiring things, that was annoying enough I started to create blueprints just for the purpose of copying the red/green wires!
How to report bugs effectively (archived version)because everyone should know this.
The game's tech tree, a visual reference guide.

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Re: Friday Facts #379 - Abstract rewiring

Post by BlackKnight »

FFF: A nice change of pace update. As much as I appreciate the big ones I also really revel in the small detailed ones too. Thanks!

Wire Straightening/Shadow update: I can see going forward this will help troubleshoot what-connects-to-what through the mess of copper, red and green wires - each with their own shadows confusing the overlapping mix.

Wire auto-routing: My only concern is if red/green wires are auto-rerouted like copper cables do when (re)-placing power poles, this could end up being a big headache after meticulously wiring a setup. So I trust there is some exclusion for this scenario.

Re Wire free placement. Completely logical and appreciated. When people expressly circumvent building circuit wires by copy/pasting blueprints of them, you know its a feature that needs to change.

A single wire button/hotkey for rotating through list of the three wire options would be extremely useful. This brings to mind one of my favorite QoL mods https://mods.factorio.com/mod/CursorEnhancements - which, among other tools, cycles via mouse wheel by item group. Super useful mod.

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Re: Friday Facts #379 - Abstract rewiring

Post by Lilly »

Nice to see the wire shadows finally fixed. I remember thinking about it ~5y ago and coming up with an easy fix. I am happy to see that exact fix got implemented. It indeed does look a lot better.
Pop quiz: can you spot the shadow problem I want to fix next?
Shadow stacking. Where all the wires connect, the shadow is extra dark. That doesn't happen in real life.

There's some other issues related to depth ordering, e.g. wire shadow rendering on top of the wires; wires that should be behind the pole being drawn on top of it. I think that's going to be really hard to fix without something like a z-buffer and depth channel for the sprites. Might reduce v-ram usage though, as all the different layers for the rails can be merged into a single image + depth channel. (I wrote about that 4y ago too). Also reduces overdraw and makes z-ordering trivial.

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Re: Friday Facts #379 - Abstract rewiring

Post by morsk »

KoblerMan wrote:
Fri Oct 06, 2023 5:46 pm
I want the belt immunity equipment to be an "abstract item" that just appears as a button toggle when you put on power armor. I've been annoyed since its introduction that it's the only item other than portable solar panels that takes up a 1x1 slot in a grid. Also it's the kind of thing that would be nice to toggle in certain situations, like the exoskeletons.
This would break my build that detects night time when belt immunity equipment fails. :lol: I don't really care about the build. I just think it's funny that there is a use for everything.

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Omnifarious
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Re: Friday Facts #379 - Abstract rewiring

Post by Omnifarious »

You guys implemented my LD Auto Circuit mod (more or less) into the base game!

And here I was getting all excited by the changes to how ghosts handled wires so I could make it work for hand-placed ghosts as well!

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Re: Friday Facts #379 - Abstract rewiring

Post by Agamemnon »

Hell yeah! Now the flat connections look like a proper tripping hazard.

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Re: Friday Facts #379 - Abstract rewiring

Post by StrangePan »

Drury wrote:
Fri Oct 06, 2023 12:17 pm
Pop quiz: can you spot the shadow problem I want to fix next?
overlapping shadows?
Bingo!

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Re: Friday Facts #379 - Abstract rewiring

Post by StrangePan »

MatHack wrote:
Fri Oct 06, 2023 12:19 pm
Pop quiz: can you spot the shadow problem I want to fix next?
Inserter claw shadows don't seem to line up with the direction of the sun. If I compare the angle of the power pole shadow and the angle of the claw shadow there seems to be a mismatch.
Oh no! I hadn’t noticed, but you’re right. That’ll be a fun side quest.

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Re: Friday Facts #379 - Abstract rewiring

Post by sarge945 »

I don't like how the new pseudo-items are completely free compared to their old item counterparts (especially the remote). Thinking a bit about it more, I had an idea about how this could be extended to solve some of the other problems with the game, and add the costs back too.

Currently, there are a few annoyances, namely:
1. Upon respawning, the player will have to dump their new pistol somewhere, such as into a box. This will eventually result in a stockpile of useless pistols.
2. The pistol is craftable, despite being completely useless as you already start with one and there's no use for ever having more than one, so it just clutters the menu
3. Crafting a "single item" is an annoying and error prone process. If I want to make a single set of body armour, I need to make sure I either put in the exact amount of steel, or remove all steel immediately after it starts producing. Otherwise, it will automatically make extra copies of the armour that I don't want. There's no point making extra and they just waste resources.

To combat all of these, I had an idea: The "Upgrade Center". This is a small assembler-style building that's buildable in the early game (requires Automation, or even better, it's own special research). Instead of producing items, you select a recipe and insert ingredients, and it then produces that recipe, which greys it out in the menu and applies it as a permanent upgrade to your character.

So for instance, I could go to the upgrade center, select "Heavy Armour", insert some steel, and it would produce the upgrade, which would then be automatically selectable in my armour slot once finished.

I could then produce the different weapons I need by purchasing them in the upgrade center, then they would be freely selectable in any of the weapon slots as a permanent upgrade.

Other things that are currently researches (like the steel axe) could also be moved here and be given a resource cost where it makes sense.

More advanced upgrades should require the previous ones. For instance, if I research Modular Armour, I still can't select it at the upgrade center before upgrading to heavy armour.

This essentially allows another form of progression similar to researching, but is player-centric rather than research which is more base-centric. Currently this progression exists in the form of weapon/item crafting, but it's clunky.

It would also be interesting to have a multiplayer option to allow upgrade centers to work for individual players only, for a whole team, or for everyone, meaning when one player gets the upgrade it applies to the whole group.
Last edited by sarge945 on Sat Oct 07, 2023 8:01 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Friday Facts #379 - Abstract rewiring

Post by StrangePan »

Ohead wrote:
Fri Oct 06, 2023 6:36 pm
I believe the remaining shadow issue is that overlapping shadows recursively darken the graphics behind them, when realistically there should only be one darker shade. You can't block more sunlight when it has all already been blocked!
This is the one! And a few people have noticed other issues that could use a little bit of attention as well.

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Re: Friday Facts #379 - Abstract rewiring

Post by computeraddict »

sarge945 wrote:
Sat Oct 07, 2023 6:37 am
1. Upon respawning, the player will have to dump their new pistol somewhere, such as into a box. This will eventually result in a stockpile of useless pistols.
2. The pistol is craftable, despite being completely useless as you already start with one and there's no use for ever having more than one, so it just clutters the menu
Recycler: https://factorio.com/blog/post/fff-375

3. Crafting a "single item" is an annoying and error prone process. If I want to make a single set of body armour, I need to make sure I either put in the exact amount of steel, or remove all steel immediately after it starts producing. Otherwise, it will automatically make extra copies of the armour that I don't want.
Just hand craft? You can also pick an assembler up or mark it for deconstruction in the middle of a craft to cancel it and get the materials back.

There's no point making extra and they just waste resources.
Quality/recycling again. Also having a back up to help get your body back if you die. Also it's pretty common for people to have multiple power armors with specialized load outs even in the current version. I personally tend to have combat armor in either or both pilot and infantry load outs, running armor, and construction armor.

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Re: Friday Facts #379 - Abstract rewiring

Post by Hares »

StrangePan wrote:
Sat Oct 07, 2023 6:30 am
Drury wrote:
Fri Oct 06, 2023 12:17 pm
Pop quiz: can you spot the shadow problem I want to fix next?
overlapping shadows?
Bingo!
How about dynamic shadows direction which depends on the current daytime?

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Re: Friday Facts #379 - Abstract rewiring

Post by Zeg »

BlackKnight wrote:
Sat Oct 07, 2023 12:51 am
Wire auto-routing: My only concern is if red/green wires are auto-rerouted like copper cables do when (re)-placing power poles, this could end up being a big headache after meticulously wiring a setup. So I trust there is some exclusion for this scenario.
This seems like the most potentially problematic thing in these changes. You run two seperate ciruit networks close by each other, remove one powerpole, the wires reroute and instant signal contamination.

Hopefully the auto connect takes into account the circuit network identifier number, so it will only connect the same network back to itself.

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