We support Ukraine

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garrotte
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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by garrotte »

@Djmixx, ты сам то веришь в ту ересь, что ты тут несёшь? Зачем ты вообще на этот форум пришёл - ты тут никого не переубедишь, даже несмотря на то, что тут многие неоднозначно воспринимают любую информацию. Они смотрят Russell Brand или Breaking Points, до которых тебе очень далеко. А те, кто с тобой согласны, тут особо и не зависают.

@Everyone else: stop feeding the troll unless you enjoy the process.

mmmPI
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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by mmmPI »

garrotte wrote:
Tue Mar 29, 2022 10:19 pm
@Djmixx, ты сам то веришь в ту ересь, что ты тут несёшь? Зачем ты вообще на этот форум пришёл - ты тут никого не переубедишь, даже несмотря на то, что тут многие неоднозначно воспринимают любую информацию. Они смотрят Russell Brand или Breaking Points, до которых тебе очень далеко. А те, кто с тобой согласны, тут особо и не зависают.

@Everyone else: stop feeding the troll unless you enjoy the process.
you are the 9th person to say something similar

Even if the troll is not fed, he just post repeatdly things, even if everyone else ignore it, he just spam pictures, never interact with other people's link, only pushes his own link or post pictures of nazi flag and call them ukrainian that kind of thing.

If you don't do anything the thread is filled with hatred and lies

tuhe
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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by tuhe »

garrotte wrote:
Tue Mar 29, 2022 10:19 pm
@Djmixx, ты сам то веришь в ту ересь, что ты тут несёшь? Зачем ты вообще на этот форум пришёл - ты тут никого не переубедишь, даже несмотря на то, что тут многие неоднозначно воспринимают любую информацию. Они смотрят Russell Brand или Breaking Points, до которых тебе очень далеко. А те, кто с тобой согласны, тут особо и не зависают.

@Everyone else: stop feeding the troll unless you enjoy the process.
With the sanctions being what they are I see it as a humanitarian effort!

Djmixxx
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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by Djmixxx »

This is how I check the information for accuracy.

If the Nazis from Ukraine refute it only in words or with references to Ukrainian news, then the information is true.
if the answer contains links not to Ukrainian news, then you need to check everything again.
I think your are confusing my opinion with the truth.

enterisys
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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by enterisys »

Djmixxx wrote:
Tue Mar 29, 2022 10:34 pm
This is how I check the information for accuracy.

If the Nazis from Ukraine refute it only in words or with references to Ukrainian news, then the information is true.
if the answer contains links not to Ukrainian news, then you need to check everything again.
Please reply to my post above, I'm feeling lonely.

mmmPI
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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by mmmPI »

Djmixxx wrote:
Tue Mar 29, 2022 10:34 pm
This is how I check the information for accuracy.
ahahahahahah "picks up random video from telegram and post them straight away on the forum saying it's true" that's a particular way to check for the accuracy of the information.

If you can't proove it false, then it is true. That kind of pseudo argument that djmixxx is attempting here is a little off the meta from random troll that is because it is easily debunked => Before the big bang we were all rabbits, if you kill all evil then the savior will return , if i stop yelling ZOLULULUULULULUL then i'm going to be attacked by mutant elephant.

Whatever bullshit like that you can come up with are part of the statement that are stupid to say because they provide no knowledge since it is impossible to proove them wrong.

That's pretty basic logic. Those statement are not something you can verify therefore they are not informationnal. Their value is 0.

Similarly i could say : Putin is a big fan of wearing pink underwear. Can you proove it false ? do you have pictures ? NO therefore it is true hahaha



Any comment on the UN or WHO saying Russia federation army is targeting civilians, journalists , and hospitals ?

Since this is not news from Ukraine, you know there is China, India, Brazil, Pakistan, Indonesia ( those are not the west right ? ) , and so on in the United Nation, or in the World Health Organization, and their statement you can verify because they provide the source in open access.

mmmPI
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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by mmmPI »

so you just post 1 image without the source without argument ?

Without any date ?

Without any way to know if the video is legit ?

Without any way to know if the person are identified ?


Does that come from the same website where there was the deep fake of president Zelensky ?

Djmixxx
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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by Djmixxx »

enterisys wrote:
Tue Mar 29, 2022 11:13 pm

Anymore fakes?
It's easier for you to go there and see with your own eyes. Not need go too far.
I think your are confusing my opinion with the truth.

mmmPI
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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by mmmPI »

https://theconversation.com/civilians-a ... ult-178155

https://theconversation.com/the-interna ... ean-179466

The International Court of Justice (ICJ), the top court of the United Nations, has ordered Russia to “immediately suspend” its military operations in Ukraine. What does the decision mean, and what happens next?

We already knew Russia’s invasion was illegal in international law. But the ICJ decision now makes it virtually impossible for anyone, including Russia, to deny that illegality. It is also impressive because Ukraine used a creative strategy to get the ICJ to hear the case, based on the Genocide Convention of 1948.

Russia’s legal arguments about the war

Russia’s president, Vladimir Putin, gave several justifications for invading Ukraine. Some had little to do with the law, such as his complaints about NATO. But two were legal arguments.

First, he claimed Russia was acting in “self-defence”. Self-defence is an established reason to use military force in international law. But Putin suggested Russia was defending the two breakaway parts of eastern Ukraine it recognises as sovereign states: Donetsk and Luhansk. Legally, these are still parts of Ukraine’s own territory, not independent states, which makes nonsense of this argument.

Second, Putin claimed Ukraine was committing genocide against ethnic Russians (where “genocide” means certain acts committed with “intent to destroy” an ethnic group or another defined group). This is just as factually and legally flimsy as the self-defence argument.

enterisys
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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by enterisys »

Djmixxx wrote:
Tue Mar 29, 2022 11:19 pm
enterisys wrote:
Tue Mar 29, 2022 11:13 pm

Anymore fakes?
It's easier for you to go there and see with your own eyes. Not need go too far.
Wake up it's 2022 I can literally roast trolls from my sofa with so many resources available.

mmmPI
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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by mmmPI »

https://www.republicworld.com/amp/world ... eshow.html


Russia refuses to comply with ICJ order to stop Ukraine war; 'no consent here'


Dmitry Peskov stated that the ICJ has a concept of 'consent of the parties', and there was no such 'consent' to end the war, on Moscow's part.


Hum interesting, how exactly are you supposed to complain about war crime if you do not listen to the jurisdiction that ask for you to stop doing some ?

FuryoftheStars
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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by FuryoftheStars »

Djmixxx wrote:
Tue Mar 29, 2022 11:19 pm
enterisys wrote:
Tue Mar 29, 2022 11:13 pm

Anymore fakes?
It's easier for you to go there and see with your own eyes. Not need go too far.
So you were there to be able to say it’s all true? Can you point yourself out in the video?

mmmPI
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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by mmmPI »

enterisys wrote:
Tue Mar 29, 2022 11:22 pm
Wake up it's 2022 I can literally roast trolls from my sofa with so many resources available.
yes but how can you know the real truth if you read medias that are from the whole world and not just from russia ?

You will read many propaganda story, how to know if the russian state media is saying the truth ? maybe it's all the other media that are correct

enterisys
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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by enterisys »

mmmPI wrote:
Tue Mar 29, 2022 11:42 pm
enterisys wrote:
Tue Mar 29, 2022 11:22 pm
Wake up it's 2022 I can literally roast trolls from my sofa with so many resources available.
yes but how can you know the real truth if you read medias that are from the whole world and not just from russia ?

You will read many propaganda story, how to know if the russian state media is saying the truth ? maybe it's all the other media that are correct
Are you sure I came to factorio forum to look for truth?
I already stated before that I'm here to point out these kind of fakes.
And to troll russian kids ofc.

mmmPI
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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by mmmPI »

enterisys wrote:
Tue Mar 29, 2022 11:51 pm
Are you sure I came to factorio forum to look for truth?
I already stated before that I'm here to point out these kind of fakes.
And to troll russian kids ofc.
That's not very nice, if they got paid in ruble, they will never be able to buy some iphone

https://theintercept.com/2022/03/14/rus ... n-hackers/
Chat logs reveal that members of the Conti ransomware gang repeated Putin’s lies about Ukraine — and bemoaned their inability to buy Apple products.
https://torrentfreak.com/russian-pirate ... my-220301/

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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by FuryoftheStars »

Re: the alleged video of Ukrainian soldiers torturing captured Russian soldiers.

I’m going to look at this differently. I’m going to say, “ok, assuming this is true, what exactly does this mean/prove?”

A video of a few people doing things they shouldn’t. What exactly is the conclusion that is being implied as obvious here? That the whole group, and by extension, the country, are Nazis? That’s a pretty mighty leap, isn’t it?
  1. You don’t have to be a Nazi to be pissed off at people invading your country. And we all know some people will take that anger too far. But that doesn’t make them Nazis.
  2. This also strikes me as an example of Association Fallacy. “A few bad actors in a group means the whole group is bad!!1!1”
  3. By extension of above, the Ukrainian government using their services does not mean the Ukrainian government is bad. I mean, come on! They’re being invaded and killed! To refuse their help just because some members are known to be Nazis and/or bad in other ways would be foolish. I also feel like for them to refuse their help due to Nazi members would be an example of cutting off one’s nose to spite one’s face.

mmmPI
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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by mmmPI »

FuryoftheStars wrote:
Wed Mar 30, 2022 12:13 am
Re: the alleged video of Ukrainian soldiers torturing captured Russian soldiers.

I’m going to look at this differently. I’m going to say, “ok, assuming this is true, what exactly does this mean/prove?”

A video of a few people doing things they shouldn’t. What exactly is the conclusion that is being implied as obvious here? That the whole group, and by extension, the country, are Nazis? That’s a pretty mighty leap, isn’t it?
  1. You don’t have to be a Nazi to be pissed off at people invading your country. And we all know some people will take that anger too far. But that doesn’t make them Nazis.
  2. This also strikes me as an example of Association Fallacy. “A few bad actors in a group means the whole group is bad!!1!1”
  3. By extension of above, the Ukrainian government using their services does not mean the Ukrainian government is bad. I mean, come on! They’re being invaded and killed! To refuse their help just because some members are known to be Nazis and/or bad in other ways would be foolish. I also feel like for them to refuse their help die to Nazi members would be an example of cutting off one’s nose to spite one’s face.
I think the argument is doing 4 differents thing, and that's why they were super exited to post the video but couldn't handle a discussion afterward.

1) See the west has double standard

2) See i'm not only saying bullshit

3) See the Ukraine is bad

4) We can't tell the truth so many facts say one thing, and the opposite.

That's like when you make a debate between a geography teacher and a flat earther, you know you try to represent the two sides.

Any explanation who are the people getting shot in the leg ? why are they here in Ukraine ? is that according to plan ? who identified the video ? who shot the video ? why ?

no of course, no discussion, just a copy paste, create some noise.

Like when they found 2 or 3 persons that explain Putin's view in the west since it's allowed to explain someone's else view/share controversial/minority opinion, then they react and act like it's the truth because there is at least 1 TV anchor in the west that is saying the same thing not willing to question why there is only 1 such person and why this person is right and not the hundreds analysts more classic. That's a biais too, confirmation biais , amongst 100 text, pick the 2-3 that fit your narrative and copy paste them everywhere.

EDIT :(that is following the same speculative reasonning that it's a legit video that represent a factual event that happened as described by those who published the link on the forum )

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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by FuryoftheStars »

Yeah, sorry, I keep forgetting that some people don’t believe in logic. But it probably won’t stop me. :)

Djmixxx
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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by Djmixxx »

FuryoftheStars wrote:
Wed Mar 30, 2022 12:13 am
A video of a few people doing things they shouldn’t. What exactly is the conclusion that is being implied as obvious here?
This video is very dangerous for Ukraine. Many countries are helping the Armed Forces of Ukraine with weapons. But it will be much more difficult to do this if it turns out that the Armed Forces of Ukraine are behaving like terrorists. They kill captives and hide behind the backs of peaceful people. Then many people of the world will have a question, who are we helping? And these are dangerous questions, so the Ukrainian government asks not to PUBLISH videos, but does not prohibit torture and murder, since only videos create the image of the country in the international arena.

This is part of the media war, where Russian animals make videos about well-fed and happy prisoners, and Ukrainian heroes about torture and execution of prisoners.
I think your are confusing my opinion with the truth.

enterisys
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Re: We support Ukraine

Post by enterisys »

Djmixxx wrote:
Wed Mar 30, 2022 5:58 am
FuryoftheStars wrote:
Wed Mar 30, 2022 12:13 am
A video of a few people doing things they shouldn’t. What exactly is the conclusion that is being implied as obvious here?
This video is very dangerous for Ukraine. Many countries are helping the Armed Forces of Ukraine with weapons. But it will be much more difficult to do this if it turns out that the Armed Forces of Ukraine are behaving like terrorists. They kill captives and hide behind the backs of peaceful people. Then many people of the world will have a question, who are we helping? And these are dangerous questions, so the Ukrainian government asks not to PUBLISH videos, but does not prohibit torture and murder, since only videos create the image of the country in the international arena.

This is part of the media war, where Russian animals make videos about well-fed and happy prisoners, and Ukrainian heroes about torture and execution of prisoners.
Indeed it is the russians who are helping 7 million internally relocated Ukrainians and 3.5 million who relocated to Europe.
But it must be fake because no one shows it on russian military tv of course.

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