Friday Facts #128 - Back down to earth

[DerivePi]

For the technology tree - I'd like to see the connecting lines be color coded to what science beakers are needed. Maybe even apply a thickness scale so that the science requirement can be seen at a glance.

[Oxyd]

For the technology tree - I'd like to see the connecting lines be color coded to what science beakers are needed. Maybe even apply a thickness scale so that the science requirement can be seen at a glance.

Colour-coding the edges based on science packs required is something I'd never think of, that sounds like an interesting idea, thanks.

Only issue is that it's a bit unclear how that should work with mods that add new kinds of science packs, like Bob's mods do.

[Ojelle]

For the technology tree - I'd like to see the connecting lines be color coded to what science beakers are needed. Maybe even apply a thickness scale so that the science requirement can be seen at a glance.

Colour-coding the edges based on science packs required is something I'd never think of, that sounds like an interesting idea, thanks.

Only issue is that it's a bit unclear how that should work with mods that add new kinds of science packs, like Bob's mods do.

You could add the science icons (relatively small) on the lines? (with a toggle, default off?) quadrouple collor line is a bit to much I think, and for bobs that would be over the top.
Really not large, so its not intrusive.

[Oxyd]

For the technology tree - I'd like to see the connecting lines be color coded to what science beakers are needed. Maybe even apply a thickness scale so that the science requirement can be seen at a glance.

Colour-coding the edges based on science packs required is something I'd never think of, that sounds like an interesting idea, thanks.

Only issue is that it's a bit unclear how that should work with mods that add new kinds of science packs, like Bob's mods do.

You could add the science icons (relatively small) on the lines? (with a toggle, default off?) quadrouple collor line is a bit to much I think, and for bobs that would be over the top.
Really not large, so its not intrusive.

There isn't enough space, unless by “relatively small” you mean like 3x3 pixels. Or unless we spread the entire thing apart by a ridiculous amount.

[torham]

For the technology tree - I'd like to see the connecting lines be color coded to what science beakers are needed. Maybe even apply a thickness scale so that the science requirement can be seen at a glance.

Colour-coding the edges based on science packs required is something I'd never think of, that sounds like an interesting idea, thanks.

Only issue is that it's a bit unclear how that should work with mods that add new kinds of science packs, like Bob's mods do.

you could program it so that the game would pull the border color from a small jpeg with a color palette. If anyone was modding a new science pack, they would just have to include a new palette picture, and define the colors...

EDIT: or even just have the color be definable by 3 RGB numbers somewhere in the files...

[Dark_star]

First, I wish to congratulate you and the team on a very successful launch. All of you have done a superb work in designing, developing and managing the factorio project.
Thank you
The loader idea seems to be a simpler solution with using cost to balance impact, a good addition. I always had a problem with bots moving masses of material and that belts/trains needed a little improvement.

[Req]

Loader No, to overpowered, if implemented, it need to have some sort of drawback making it more balanced to loaders. For example it's faster but consume whatever item it's unloading as well.

Would like to see multi player add-on for steam where you can invite our steam friends, shouldn't be too hard since multi player already exist in game.

[bruteman]

Its funny the Dev of fortresscraft has been ranting about factorio on his stream all week and now claims the "unloader" ideal is stolen from him

[n7m6e7]

May i suggest you divide the loader into 2 parts?

Loader: meant to load chests. Looks like an elevated belt, with an oscillating funnel, as if it were dispensing into separate compartments of the container. 2x1?

Pros:
Loads containers as fast as the belt supplies them.

Cons:
Can ONLY pull from a belt leading INTO it
Can ONLY dispense into containers (chests and trains)

Unloader:Meant to quickly unload containers Looks like a hopper with a drum that sports staggered holes, to dispense objects left-right-left-right. 2x1?

Pros:
Unloads containers faster than inserters (maybe the speed of a fast inserter x2? but speed isnt dependent on the belt)
Dispenses onto BOTH sides of a belt

Cons:
Can ONLY pull from containers
Can ONLY dispense onto a belt

using both of these would simplify and speed up train stops. loaders could be used separately for better storage systems.

[quinor]

Loaders are awesome. It feels hugely OP but that's something we've been definitely missing. If they'd be comparable (or rather much higher) in price to blue splitters I think the balance should be totally OK. What about chest-to-chest operation mode?

They should be done in three tiers following the transport belts theme, and I'd make them not use electricity, just to follow the rule.

Usecases I see so far:
1) train stops (how you build those now is hillarious)
2) belt balancers
3) storage buffers

Any more?

[Xuhybrid]

The Loader is way too strong. While i love the idea of it, it would completely upset all of the existing balance to the point where there's no need to use inserters any more.

[Zeblote]

The Loader is way too strong. While i love the idea of it, it would completely upset all of the existing balance to the point where there's no need to use inserters any more.

You'd still need to use tons of inserters to put stuff in/out of assembling machines?

[AntonioModer]

My answer: Loader - yes.

In Factorio I play a couple of days.
But I think that the thing is a good idea.
I thought of such a thing.
Inserters sometime look unrealistic, clumsy, needless.
It is much easier to use this compact thing.

It is necessary save in game inserters and loaders.
Let players choose that it is better to use.

I am glad that the game is progress.

[Carble]

I think these would be useful, but maybe balance it for use with specific materials. So, for example, you could only use them with raw items that are naturally used in vast quantities, but don't allow them to be used with more complex items. Thus transporting large number of complex items via train would still require the use of intricate insterter setups.

[Zeblote]

I think these would be useful, but maybe balance it for use with specific materials.

That would go against all logic in factorio, there are only 2 categories (fluid and solid things) and normally a machine can handle anything.

[Dezaro]

I love the concept but I think I could be balanced pretty easily.

(Acknowlging these probably aren't original thought)
I think it should be combined it with a storage box and call it a hopper. Hoppers are real world examples of dumping raw materials storing them and then transferring them to a conveyor.

So in my opinion it's not overpowered as long as we don't use it for manufactured goods.

[stardruid]

As long as you can only use loaders like hoppers in real life to put things in and out of containers like chest and trains I think they would be perfect. This would let inserts be used for the more delicate work of inserting materials into machines and pulling them out etc. I personally have always hate the complex crap you have to build around trains to load or unload them. Realistically for stuff like coal, copper, iron etc you just pull them over a hopper, open the lower section of them and rapidly dump the contents. After that is when things like insertions etc are needed.

What I really love to see with the loaders in such a case are trailers + flat bed train carts + cranes for finished goods like circuits etc. So you for bulk stuff you would use the loader and a bulk train cart. For finished stuff you woudl need to load the "trailer" section like in real life, then use the crane to put it on the train, then unload the trailer at it's destination. In such a case then insert would still be need to load the trailer sections with more delicate finished goods you can't just drop into a train cart. This would allow you to take your time load and unload the trailers, specially when some day when we get other train related stuff like "wait till full", "wait till empty" etc.

[ScionoicS]

Along the same lines as this "Loader" I've had an idea. A device that would pull from an underground belt beneath it and then output to the arrow. There are a lot of ways the underground layer of Factorio could be better used.

I do love the idea of a belt loading device in general. If it does seem OP and affect game progression too much, then resource costs and speed it operates at could all be changed. Belt loaders should require a considerable amount of lubricant in their recipe and that would definitely give it a cost to benefit consideration. Ultimately, I believe there are opportunities for direct belt loading without ruining the already established tech.

Would love to see a box which lifts from an underground belt passing underneath it too.

[vanatteveldt]

Along the same lines as this "Loader" I've had an idea. A device that would pull from an underground belt beneath it and then output to the arrow. There are a lot of ways the underground layer of Factorio could be better used.

This is actually a good way to tie in with my earlier suggestion for hopper/feeder: a hopper car or chest can output onto an underground belt. This is probably even possible with a mod (not that I've ever modded anything...)

[NorNogaAdmin]

after thinking a lot about this and reading the entire thread, I feel that loaders would be a decent addiction to the game, if made within reason.... the proposal only shows using them with chests, and if it stays like that, where you can only use them with a chest, then they would be a-OK for any purposes that I can think of... if you think of it, the only time that they would be outputting a full stream of items would be when you have MANY items coming into the input chests, and when does that really happen?... however, i would propose that it would be more of a 1x3 structure mostly because at that point is when the major redesigns must happen and power usage is a must!