Friday Facts #431 - Gleba & Captivity

[FasterJump]

To be honest, I find the pulsing and undulation of the "tamed" nests and new lab to be uncomfortable and sickening to watch. I hope someone can make alternate graphics for them, because I can't imagine making an entire factory of them.

I was also surprised to see that the endgame lab was 90% organic(by volume). I'm not bothered by the graphics. But would this organic lab fit the Nauvis production chain, thematically? Also there is no explanation why science can be processed by a machine (normal lab), and why processing it by a big alien blob organism make it more efficient. I would rather imagine that that a new lab would be at least 60% mechanical (by volume).

So close to the release, the mechanics are here to stay, but it's always possible to work on the lore / flavor text or the graphics.

That's no big deal anyway, I think it's fine how it is.

[computeraddict]

I'm either going to really love this or really hate it, and I'm not sure which yet

[Necronium]

7 Factorio 1.0 science packs. + 4 planet-specific from new planets.
But biolab showcase features 12 types of science packs.
Or I'm getting colorblind due to old age...

The 12th Type MIGHT be the spoiled bioscience pack

12th science is endgame science as white is in current version of Factorio

[doktorstick]

But would this organic lab fit the Nauvis production chain, thematically? Also there is no explanation why science can be processed by a machine (normal lab), and why processing it by a big alien blob organism make it more efficient.

How does a normal lab do it's labbing? Maybe the bio one is something-something-neural-substrate-something-something. We know it has some intelligence, even at the instinctual level, since it "knows" when to pop out more biters.

[Brother Matthew]

Thank you devs

For always being so transparent and enthusiastic about sharing factorio with us. You inspire me and I appreciate it more than I can put into words <3

[bugboy2222]

oh that animation is disgusting... I love it

[Rebmes]

First impression, this looks awesome, makes sense, guess you saved some time and resources to fix up whatever was sagging, which turns out to be Gleba?

Very excited to get into it all, and thanks for the heads up for the media embargo ending soon lol I don't think I need everything "spoiled" before I even play!

[CPU_BlackHeart]

making the enemies less crazy

Saw this, please include a clause that if you select to play on Death World, the Gleba enemies keep their "craziness" whatever that could be. Many of us don't exactly know what these enemies are supposed to be like, and I enjoy a challenge. Makes the military technologies actually feel useful when you have to utilize them quite a good bit.

[XT-248]

7 Factorio 1.0 science packs. + 4 planet-specific from new planets.
But biolab showcase features 12 types of science packs.
Or I'm getting colorblind due to old age...

The 12th Type MIGHT be the spoiled bioscience pack

12th science is endgame science as white is in current version of Factorio

The seven science packs figure already counts space science.

Red/Automation is the first one.
Green/Logistics is the second one.
Black/Military is the third one.
Blue/Chemical is the fourth one.
Purple/Production is the fifth one.
Yellow/Utility is the sixth one.
White/Space is the seventh one.

Plus, there are four new science packs from the four new worlds.

That leaves one unaccounted for.

[hojava]

bacteria in biochamber can't just make iron and copper elements out of thin air and nutrients

Depends on the nutrients. If it contains the trace amounts of the element the bacteria can filter it out. Iron bacteria is a real thing, by the way https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron-oxidizing_bacteria it can be used to extract iron, but nowhere near the industrial amounts.

As I said. As stupid as from plants.
There is a tree that suck tremendous (for a plant) amount of Nickel from soil.
But not bacteria, not plants don't extract more than there is. And there are niglectable amount of those in SOIL. Like, a ton of bacteria multiplyed and refined, consuming two tons of dead organics from soil to collect one kilo of copper.

You know composition of gleban soil? How cool! It could very well be 90% hematite and tenorite sand for all we know. But anyway, the biochambers don't interact with soil, I suspect. From a realistic point of view, it might make sense to input water, as the local water could easily contain a lot of metal salts that bacteria could bind. Perhaps the biochamber could output water as well, as water itself wouldn't really be consumed much. Just letting it pour out (just by graphics change) might be preferable to a real output, so that players cannot use the output desalted water as input for another biochamber (which shouldn't work, because the bacteria in the biochamber removed the metal salts from the water). Just letting it soak into ground sidesteps the need to introduce a new fluid to stop the output water reuse. The particular chemistry of gleban water could also easily serve as a reason why this approach cannot be used on other planets, if there is a need for such a reason.
A completely different question is whether this would make sense from a gameplay point of view. That's not something I can judge, but I have absolute confidence in the devs that they will make the right call. So far, they consistently delivered amazing stuff, and this FFF in particular was really exciting.

[Sigma1]

okay, i really like the whole biter egg thing, especially it having an actual risk if things go wrong; something i find to be lacking in, well, most factory building games really; plus i really like the idea of repurposing the biter nests rather than just making some brand new machine, it really fits the vibe Factorio has of maximising efficiency and exploiting every resource in any way possible

heck, that's kinda a thing i like about Gleba as a whole, instead of magic machines producing things, it feels more like using nature to your advantage which extends the whole vibe while also breaking it up in just the right way

---

main thing i dislike is that there's a way to craft captive biter spawners, but that's less due to that itself and more what i find to be a deeper issue in especially lategame Factorio; you're encouraged to scale horizontally by building rows upon rows upon rows of machines, which at least to me tends to lose out on the fun and challenges of vertical scaling; the biter spawners would've been a cool way to break up that monotony by being something you shouldn't skip, but which you can't scale as neatly as other things

would also bring a sort of thematic thing in that you, the engineer, have mastered the inorganic and mechanical nature of machines, but for fully organic things are still slightly at the whim of nature; but also that's just me probably reading too much into themes and vibes and such

[FasterJump]

[...] From a realistic point of view, it might make sense to input water, as the local water could easily contain a lot of metal salts that bacteria could bind. Perhaps the biochamber could output water as well, as water itself wouldn't really be consumed much. Just letting it pour out (just by graphics change) might be preferable to a real output, so that players cannot use the output desalted water as input for another biochamber (which shouldn't work, because the bacteria in the biochamber removed the metal salts from the water). Just letting it soak into ground sidesteps the need to introduce a new fluid to stop the output water reuse. The particular chemistry of gleban water could also easily serve as a reason why this approach cannot be used on other planets, if there is a need for such a reason.
A completely different question is whether this would make sense from a gameplay point of view. That's not something I can judge, but I have absolute confidence in the devs that they will make the right call. So far, they consistently delivered amazing stuff, and this FFF in particular was really exciting.

I agree, water input would make sense as a source of Iron (rather than iron being made out of thin air or via beta decay, like in the core of the sun...). Rather than letting the water pour out, how about evaporation? Most organism naturally release water as steam. I think that it would make sense to see a faint smoke-like animation above the biochamber. Or just output decayed waste or a random organic material.

[Molay]

Okay okay, so I I just thought about something. The synthetic spawners, ye? What if they come with quality enabled, and quality determines what the egg hatches into? A normal quality one would spawn yellow biters, uncommon reds, rare blues and epic greens. That leaves legendary unaccounted for - a new boss biter level perhaps?

[sarge945]

Whether we finally broke the imbalance of Vulcanus and Fulgora being clearly superior to Gleba, we will see

I don't think you've accomplished the goal here. You've certainly moved the needle, I just don't think enough. Thing is, the super-lab isn't useful in the early-mid game when you're hitting the first 3 planets. Most bases in those early stages are what? 60 SPM? 100 SPM? Super lab vs regular lab in those scales is pointless, you're talking less than 20 labs, regular or otherwise. There's also precious little need for T3 modules at this point in the factory's life.

Now, end game? 10kSPM? Yeah, the super lab and T3 prod modules have clear benefits in that factory. But you aren't getting to that scale until well after hitting all the planets.

I fundamentally disagree with your assessment.

Double lab efficiency is at it's highest value when science packs are hard to create. In the mid-game, it's very feasible for the player to struggle to make yellow/purple/whatever science packs, and having a few labs that can double their effectiveness is an absolute godsend.

It's still useful later, but isn't anywhere near as critically important.

[yngndrw]

Speaking of testers, please be aware that the content/press embargo ends on the 14th October, so if you want to avoid spoilers please keep it in mind as there are no restrictions on what they can show.

Is that the intended release date?

[Phauxstus]

This is some great stuff, I always thought Gleba is the most interesting planet even if it's not the most optimal pick.
Now If you make the biochamber able to process chem plant recipes with bonus speed/prod, Gleba might actually be competitive with Vulcanus and Fulgora.
It feels like at the point in development when you decided to let the Foundry and EM plant be used on other planets Gleba was left behind with it's buildings only useful on their own planet, and for their own section of production at that. Letting Gleba's signature building be useful off-world the way Vulcanus and Fulgora do would be the biggest benefit to bridging the power gap.
Also the big miner and recycler are useable off-world too, making the agritower another odd one out in being only useful on a single planet. It's probably too late to start adding harvestable plants for every planet, but might be nice to see in 2.1 or something.

The pulsating meat of the prototype synthetic biter nest is hypnotic. The biolab design fits better for it's new role, but the cage covers it up too much and doesn't let us appreciate the convulsing mass within. Could you make the segments of the cage a little thinner please?

[XT-248]

Speaking of testers, please be aware that the content/press embargo ends on the 14th October, so if you want to avoid spoilers please keep it in mind as there are no restrictions on what they can show.

Is that the intended release date?

October 21st is the release date.

October 14th is when people can start talking or show Space Age content that hasn't been revealed as part of an FFF.

[CyberCider]

Now If you make the biochamber able to process chem plant recipes with bonus speed/prod, Gleba might actually be competitive with Vulcanus and Fulgora.
It feels like at the point in development when you decided to let the Foundry and EM plant be used on other planets Gleba was left behind with it's buildings only useful on their own planet, and for their own section of production at that. Letting Gleba's signature building be useful off-world the way Vulcanus and Fulgora do would be the biggest benefit to bridging the power gap.
Also the big miner and recycler are useable off-world too, making the agritower another odd one out in being only useful on a single planet. It's probably too late to start adding harvestable plants for every planet, but might be nice to see in 2.1 or something.

The lightning rods, even the high tech upgraded version, are also only usable on Fulgora

Personally, I think they went the right direction by giving Gleba a lab instead of a chem plant. At first a super chem plant might seem like the logical choice to complete the “trinity” of buildings, but if you really take a moment to look at it it’s actually not as good as it sounds. Oil products are used in considerably smaller volumes than ore products, so the overall effect on your production wouldn’t be nearly as impressive. In a recipe where the foundry saves you hundreds of plates, a super chem plant would only save maybe a dozen plastic bars.

[datkensign]

The new science lab has an output...

Why does it have an output?

[CyberCider]

The new science lab has an output...

Why does it have an output?

To remove spoilage in case lime science spoils