Friday Facts #414 - Spoils of Agriculture

[aka13]

Control-F does not yield any "quality" matches.

[FuryoftheStars]

Ah, yup, finally had a chance to reread and yeah, they don't even hint at quality. Must of been some of the comments after the fact I was thinking of, but none were of dev comments from elsewhere.

To some extent I suppose quality doesn't make a lot of sense for the perishables, though, if you think about. Perishables inherit their component's spoilage and thus you want to move them through to the final product (or a product where spoilage no longer matters) as fast as possible.

In contrast, quality, by its nature of the low randomness percentage, will result in the items taking a longer time to proceed through (for anything more than just the random chance on the first round, which is exceedingly low for the high end). This would result in the higher quality items having less time left on their spoilage meters, so I feel like any gains in longevity from higher quality may not be worthwhile.

That said, I could be wrong. It may even be that they want you to just do a singular pass on the quality rather than feeding "undesirables" back through in a loop, just like how they want to discourage buffering. *shrug*

[Tricorius]

That said, I could be wrong. It may even be that they want you to just do a singular pass on the quality rather than feeding "undesirables" back through in a loop, just like how they want to discourage buffering. *shrug*

I assume that it won’t be aim for only one end of the spectrum, but instead, aim for both.

Assume, for instance, seeds have quality. Therefore you want to optimize (both horizontally and vertically) for high quality seeds. The theory here being a quality 4 seed creates fruits that deteriorates more slowly than a zero quality seed would. (Assuming a lot here, like the seeds have quality and that impacts the quality of the fruits generated.)

And I’m assuming that spoilage gets you something as well (if only plantable soil). Now, let’s assume soil has quality.

SO, assuming that we get benefits out of really high quality items as quickly into the process as possible AND we get benefits from really bad quality then we want to optimize two conditions:

- maximize high quality splitting into “desired” loops as soon in the process as possible
- maximize low quality splitting into “undesired” loops as soon as possible

The idea being take advantage of the really good stuff early and often; and get rid of the terrible stuff fast so it doesn’t offset your main quality loops.

The middle range is where your gambling happens.

:: shrug ::

[Saphira123456]

Consider the joy of devising intricate refrigeration systems,
stored in climate-controlled warehouses, and transported swiftly to prevent spoilage.
Each successful delivery of perishable goods, each cleverly designed storage solution
preservation.

One problem with your entire, rather-eloquent, diatribe here.

The developers have already stated there is to be NO refrigeration.
The developers have already stated there is to be NO climate control.
The developers have already stated there is to be NO cleverly-designed storage solutions.
The developers have already stated there is to be NO preservation, mechanical, chemical, or otherwise.

So, everything you posted in your diatribe, is destroyed.

If one does care about factual information, then both of you are wrong, a single FFF has been locked so far. Not multiple, not 0.

I do share the belief that it is due to "feeding usual suspect" albeit i'm afraid it will constitute a personnal attack to say it, in case this sentence can be removed so that the "usual suspect" do not feel incriminated for its action.

This is clearly a personal attack, albeit a thinly-disguised one. I know you believe I am a troll, this is not and has never been the case.

Moderation incoming.

Also, as someone clearly mentioned in a previous post (moderated I believe) that apparently multiple posts in a row, to different people, is trolling; I have attempted to condense things this time. I believe it was @FuryoftheStars who accused me of this.

Unfortunately these things tend to happen when there is no multi-quote button. So to be honest, it isn't really my fault when the website I am typing on does not include a function to natively multi-quote.

Perhaps ask phpBB to include a multiquote function. Then, I won't need to post multiple times in a row!

[mmmPI]

One problem with your entire, rather-eloquent

Thank you i appreciate the compliment, you can PM me if there are other things you didn't understand as was metionned earlier.

[SirSmuggler]

Oh, the Spoilage Mechanic ...

*slow clap*
Bravo Sir, bravo. If only I had an ounce of you vocabulary, and the general forum public a mer smidget of your grace, this forum would be a much batter place


Allso, your description of Gleba reminds me of Grandfather Nurgle.

[Tricorius]

The developers have already stated there is to be NO refrigeration.
The developers have already stated there is to be NO climate control.
The developers have already stated there is to be NO cleverly-designed storage solutions.
The developers have already stated there is to be NO preservation, mechanical, chemical, or otherwise.

So, everything you posted in your diatribe, is destroyed.

They actually seemed to be rather specific about this post. I didn’t see any hard lines drawn in the FFF other than the statement that there isn’t a way to slow down the spoilage mechanic on existing entities in the game.

I think it would be silly not to have quality effect freshness and initial spoilage meters.

I feel like quality was possibly built to make this sort of design decision more palatable.

[husnikadam]

Is it possible to harvest and plant Nauvis trees on nauvis? What about (other trees) on other planets?

[Svip]

Perhaps ask phpBB to include a multiquote function. Then, I won't need to post multiple times in a row!

It does, actually, although it is a bit unintuitive. Instead of hitting the "reply with quote" button next to the post, click "post reply" at the bottom of the thread. Below the text area, you can see the list of posts in reverse chronological order, and next to each is a "quote" button. Clicking that, adds the quote to the bottom of the post you've already written.

[Terrahertz]

This sounds pretty cool, does the science pack also turn into spiolage or is there an excetion and its just gone after a while?

So nutrients are a type of fuel for the biochmaber then? Does this mean there spiolage is effecting there fuel content and not the spoilage of the final products?

Has anybody else the feeling this is just part one of the Gleba mechanics? Because we are missing one very important information atm: Why should Gleba be the first Planet to travel to?

[Svip]

Because we are missing one very important information atm: Why should Gleba be the first Planet to travel to?

I think a lot of people are speculating which planet to reach first, but they will be speculating with an incomplete picture. And not just because there are still details to be revealed, but also because even the developers themselves are not completely aware how all their mechanics interact with each other. Hours, if not months, of playtesting is no match for unleashing a game upon the masses, who will soon discover how unexpected mechanics interact with one another.

While I have nothing specific in mind, I can imagine that the reasoning - at least optimally - for travelling to planet A before planet B are not going to be obvious at first, but will start making sense, as players grasp the implication of all the new mechanics in 2.0 and Space Age.

It requires a certain level of intuition to contemplate the interactions between two distant mechanics without playtesting. But it's a different level when imagining dozens of mechanics. There will be plenty of balancing occurring post-release. It is the way of things.

Not a direct answer to your question (since I don't have it), but even the answers with have for Fulgora and Vulcanus may not be the actual answer in the end. Not because of a hidden feature the developers haven't revealed, but because of mechanics interaction that they did not foresee.

[aka13]

Ah, yup, finally had a chance to reread and yeah, they don't even hint at quality. Must of been some of the comments after the fact I was thinking of, but none were of dev comments from elsewhere.

To some extent I suppose quality doesn't make a lot of sense for the perishables, though, if you think about. Perishables inherit their component's spoilage and thus you want to move them through to the final product (or a product where spoilage no longer matters) as fast as possible.

In contrast, quality, by its nature of the low randomness percentage, will result in the items taking a longer time to proceed through (for anything more than just the random chance on the first round, which is exceedingly low for the high end). This would result in the higher quality items having less time left on their spoilage meters, so I feel like any gains in longevity from higher quality may not be worthwhile.

That said, I could be wrong. It may even be that they want you to just do a singular pass on the quality rather than feeding "undesirables" back through in a loop, just like how they want to discourage buffering. *shrug*

The spoilage time increase by quality could be scaling in a non-linear fashion, which would propably take a lot of pain away with stuff spoiling on the belts. Just up-qualify stuff, and you get free breathing room

We are going to be manufacturing spice for unlocking FTL travel on Gleba

[GregoriusT]

Quality on Spoiler Products does not make sense for Science (Sci Packs wont have Quality) but it DOES make sense for all the other stuff, like Rocket Fuel from Spoilers for example. After all every Planet has one thing that makes Rockets easier, and Rocket Fuel is what's left for Gleba to do.

So putting Quality Modules on your Science supplies, and assuming the Devs follow the intentional design choice of "Science Pack Ingredients are useful for Stuff other than Science Packs", this means you could siphon off the Quality Ingredients from your Science Ingredient Assemblers for more useful Stuff like the aforementioned Rocket Fuel and similar things. This applies not only to the new Sci Packs, but also the original Science Packs as well by the way, especially awesome for personal Red Ammo from Mil Sci by the way.

Spoiler

(and yes I am gonna call Spoilables "Spoilers" cuz funny)

Why should Gleba be the first Planet to travel to?

As someone who already chose Gleba over Moltenrock and Dune, before even knowing what Gleba is, I can tell you all the benefits I did not know about until now!

1. There is regular Ore Patches, so you can work on a small Mall as normal.
2. If you are going to setup Nauvis Science on Gleba instead, you should just start as early as possible.
3. It is a good fresh start if you want to leave behind the Nauvis Spaghetti!
4. oh wow I already ran out of good reasons, I do really like the whole rebuilding base aspect of the game, and Gleba is the best target for that. XD


I just realized we DEFINITELY need a way to make Charcoal from Wood if Gleba does not have Coal Patches! How else are we gonna make Grenades and such!

[CyberCider]

In case anyone was still curious about the quality thing

Untitled.png (17.73 KiB) Viewed 1487 times

[FuryoftheStars]

Also, as someone clearly mentioned in a previous post (moderated I believe) that apparently multiple posts in a row, to different people, is trolling; I have attempted to condense things this time. I believe it was @FuryoftheStars who accused me of this.

You were accused of spamming, not trolling, but not by me. Your responded to that accusation, to which I then responded saying the multiple posts in a row was spamming.

Perhaps ask phpBB to include a multiquote function. Then, I won't need to post multiple times in a row!

This is already possible. I mean, how do you think I've been doing it (in the very post even you site, iirc)?

------------------------------------------

In case anyone was still curious about the quality thing

Wow, thanks for finding that confirmation!

[GregoriusT]

This is already possible. I mean, how do you think I've been doing it (in the very post even you site, iirc)?

In order to multiquote, scroll down in the editor until you see the list of previous messages, from there you can click the quotation mark button on each post to copypaste its content to the editor wherever your cursor is, like this.

Screenshot_20240612_131517.png (80.68 KiB) Viewed 1447 times

In case anyone was still curious about the quality thing

Ooooh thanks ^^

[mmmPI]

Oh, the Spoilage Mechanic ...

*slow clap*
Bravo Sir, bravo. If only I had an ounce of you vocabulary, and the general forum public a mer smidget of your grace, this forum would be a much batter place
Allso, your description of Gleba reminds me of Grandfather Nurgle.

Thanks a lot sir, another compliment on the same day can only inflate an ego that really doesn't need it, I had to take a little time to calm down and try to understand what was happening to me, and i think it's the power of Gleba, inspired by the lyrical depiction of its exhilarating atmosphere in previous FFF, illustrating for me how rotten spoiled and stinky mess can turn into the fertile compost that will nurture the fruitful seeds of joy for the future greater good of the factorians. How couldn't i thought of blooming flowers at the sight of those emerging speculations, I had to attempt elevating my behavior dreaming about emulating those very inspiring FFF. One was called from trash to treasure it wasn't forgotten

I didn't know of "Grandfather Nurgle", but i was familiar with some storytelling in the warhammer universe, and it inspired me for an audio version, i even corrected the typos in the script and tried to add some little music, but not too much, i can't say the quality is legendary or that it is a treasure, some mistakes were made in the hasty production, but at least it is of the utmost freshness and it would be a shame to put it to the trash !



There is no video clip to make it lighter on the forum, but as it's only possible to embed mp4 and not mp3 it has to be very tiny video of nothing but the sound is there

[Tomplus]

Will there be refrigerators or freezers?
Special objects that consume electricity or gaseous substances. After all, the basic technological principle when handling perishable items is to keep them fresh.

It's the same with drying plants. To properly dry the plant, you need to use energy from fuels.

[CyberCider]

Will there be refrigerators or freezers?
Special objects that consume electricity or gaseous substances. After all, the basic technological principle when handling perishable items is to keep them fresh.

It's the same with drying plants. To properly dry the plant, you need to use energy from fuels.

Gameplay before realism

[FuryoftheStars]

This is already possible. I mean, how do you think I've been doing it (in the very post even you site, iirc)?

In order to multiquote, scroll down in the editor until you see the list of previous messages, from there you can click the quotation mark button on each post to copypaste its content to the editor wherever your cursor is, like this.

I think you meant to quote someone else. I already know this. It's also not the only method, as that only goes back so many posts, but it is the easiest for simple multiquoting.