Friday Facts #414 - Spoils of Agriculture

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Anima117
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Re: Friday Facts #414 - Spoils of Agriculture

Post by Anima117 »

CyberCider wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2024 6:12 am
Anima117 wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2024 6:41 am

I mean more in terms of permanent benefits. What I consider a permanent benefit is for example, Vulcanus' infinite supply of stone, iron ore and copper ore. The utility of that is that if you were to run out of iron, copper, or stone on Nauvis, and somehow couldn't get to a nearby patch right now, you could use Vulcanus as a permanent supply of the stuff.
Same for Fulgora having an infinite source of oil. Oil is already technically infinite in Factorio, but not at a steady rate. While I presume Fulgora's supply wont be "as good" as the supply on Nauvis (as in, transport logistics from planet to planet is gonna be painful), but you could theorically use it to supply Nauvis.

And you could also supply to other planets. Imagine Gleba has no iron, copper, and stone deposits. I don't think they'd do that because I'm fairly certain they intend for you to not get softlocked should something bad happen on a planet and you probably can't transport ressources until you reach rockets again, but imagine they did something like that. But already Vulcanus to Fulgora basic ressource transportation is a good idea given Fulgora works by recyling trash. Having a space platform do trips from Vulcanus to Fulgora with infinite ressources would eventually solve most of Fulgora's problems so you can keep farming the rest of the stuff in peace.

Anyway, my point remains, asside from expanding your ressources, I do wonder if Gleba will bring something else than just the bioflux and carbon fiber (Which are going to be this planet's main export, just like Vulcanus gets Tungsten, and Fulgora gets Holmium) in the same sense that the other two planets get a bonus addition of a ressource being farmable to infinity.
I feel like you may be getting things slightly backwards with this “permanent benefit” stuff. The expansion will be pretty different from Space Exploration, in that you will be largely discouraged from transporting raw resources between planets. Making all those rockets to deliver something you don’t really *need* to deliver would be quite a waste of the local resources. Imagine how much scrap you would need to assmble a rocket to Nauvis, all to deliver some oil that Nauvis already has plenty of. Every planet has “infinite” resources of its own if you continue to expand a little, the rockets are for delivering special, exclusive things that only those planets can provide. The real “permanent benefits” will be the new buildings and technologies unlocked on the planets. The big drill to extend the life of your ore patches, the foundry to give you more smelting productivity, the electromagnetic plant to give you more circuit productivity…

Also, I think you may have missed a detail in the Vulcanus fff. Vulcanus doesn’t give you infinite iron, copper and stone. Lava may be infinite, but to process it into useful materials you need calcite, and calcite is a finite ore like everything else. Also, like you said, Nauvis already has infinite oil. But Nauvis has crude oil while Fulgora has heavy oil, and crude is a lot “denser” than heavy.

Regarding Gleba, believe it or not, we have a surprising amount of information on its ore situation. Kovarex revealed a lot in a reddit comment:
1) Gleba has patches of iron, copper and stone
2) They are small in size, but extremely rich. You won’t worry about depleting them, you will worry about their low total output.
3) Except you won’t, really, none of the Gleba-exclusive processing uses any minable resources whatsoever, only renewables. The ores will be going into rocket launches and infrastructure only.
I figured Gleba would have ore deposits too for the infrastructure, but didn't know they would be super rich but small (I mostly don't go on reddit either). But thanks for clarifying that.

As for the whole infinite ressource thing, I get that calcite is not infinite, but it would be one deposit getting farmed vs having to go to other patches of ore. Also I am of course not talking about regular gameplay, as obviously there would be no need to go bring stuff from one planet to the other just for this when ressources are clearly not an issue otherwise (I mean, when do you deplete a deposit outside of your game start deposit in regular play? That's kinda rare), but more so as a "I'm done with this save, but want to building a needlessly complex super factory". That or for some stupid challenge runs. I can imagine a few people would be happy to just complete the expansion in a 15 tile stripe, sending processed ressources from another planet could be a fun idea to them.

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Re: Friday Facts #414 - Spoils of Agriculture

Post by Saphira123456 »

Anima117 wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2024 7:09 am
Saphira123456 wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2024 11:27 am
Loewchen wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2024 1:33 am
bobucles wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2024 9:10 pm
Loewchen wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2024 8:41 pm

That would mean spoilage is just a problem with a straight forward solution, having item travel time as a new logistic challenge to optimize sounds way more fun.
Maybe? It seems like a system that won't play well with trains...
I could imagine the exact opposite: A factory that produces exactly enough for one single wagon train in a burst and then halts production until the next train arrives. Bots will still be faster for short distances, but for any span bots can't do without recharge trains will be very attractive.
With spoilage involved in gameplay, fun will go bad faster than unrefrigerated hummus left to rot in the hot sun, and the game will begin to stink more putridly than rotten fish left out on a hot summer's day.
Sorry to pop in unannounced, but the thing that I think everyone is missing is that products have different shelf time, and transporting the product is not going to be a big issue.
The reason why is simple. Some items spoil faster than others. It is to be estimated that the further you go in the production line, the slower they spoil.
Long story short, you make your initial production processsing right after you harvest the fruits.
The processed good has a higher spoil time, meaning it can travel a bit further. You process it into further product.

AND EVENTUALLY, you'll get a final product, that either isn't perishable (Like carbon fiber is probably not perishable) which you can send wherever whenever.
And for the ones who are perishable? If it is 2 hours of in game time... You got plenty of time to move the item from point A to point B.

If you end up with rot, then either it means you are not processing your item early enough in the line, in which case, move your factory, or your ressource node closer (They are trees, you can plant them on special soil that you can place yourself... So you are not bound by the location you get the plant at unlike iron, copper, stone, etc), or you are just buffering, in which case, up your production just like you would normally do and things will go smoothly.
And if you do get some rot, you filter it out. Remember, they have added filtering to all inserters. Just either make some inserters take out the rot, or about to rot items in your line, and/or use splitters to send the rot away to get disposed of. Again, that ressource is infinite, so all you have to do is improve your production's treatment speed which also comes with the faster belts etc...

You are directly imagining "OMG how do I put this in trains" when you don't have to. You can just create new farms in other parts of your factory, you don't have to bring the fruits everywhere from a central hub. Make mutliple fruit farms where you need the fruits to be.
And only transport the longer shelf time items over some distances. If there is stone, iron, copper etc on Gleba, that is what you will bring by train. But the plants themselves, you just plant them where you need them to be, and that solves your logistic issue.

It isn't as bad as you think it is going to be. You just need to optimise the factory for a quick treatment of the product rather than stockpile stuff. It is no different to smelting a huge load of iron ore without buffering, you just need the appropriate production line for it. The only idea i dislike is sending perishable items to another planet, but even that is most likely not an actual issue, otherwise they wouldn't add it to the game.
You'll have to forgive me as this is not exactly realistic. I have a background and interest in transport, see, specifically rail transport.

IRL, fruit and other perishables can't be planted "anywhere", they have to be planted in specific spots. And it's near impossible to do everything right near the fields. Every step has an intermediate as well, whether picking or packaging or shipping.

Spoilage starts from the moment an item is picked, and it is absolutely vital that it be kept preserved through some mechanism, whether that's refrigeration, mechanical cooling, vacuum packing, freeze-drying, salting, smoking, etcetera. EVERYTHING gets some sort of preserving. There are entire refrigerated warehouses and things just to "buffer" preserved goods.

You don't bring the agricultural products themselves straight to a particular central manufacturing hub by rail. You bring them from the fields or initial packing plants to a central warehouse by rail. Then you bring more railcars, packed to the hilt with thousands of bunches of agricultural products, to many different places. Some get shipped to market directly, but most go to processing plants.

From the processing plants, all the processed products and their byproducts get shipped out on even more trains packed with thousands of processed products, into the markets or beyond.

And all the while these products are refrigerated or otherwise preserved, because time is not your friend. Again, entire warehouses have been dedicated to preserved goods. Entire industries formed to create preservation chains. Refrigerated boxcars were invented by a meat packer tired of losing money to spoilage. Ice houses and other facilities were created just to support these chains and prevent spoilage.

In order to produce products on the scale we would need to directly support an industry revolving around perishable goods, such as what we see in this FFF, we would need LOTS of farms, LOTS of factories and LOTS of goods. And all with very rapid transport and buffering, with the former potentially stretching for miles.

In this game, that means trains, and lots of them.

So if you're going to include spoilage, then preservation methods are essential. Not optional. Small-scale things like you propose are completely impractical.
Last edited by Saphira123456 on Tue Jun 11, 2024 8:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Friday Facts #414 - Spoils of Agriculture

Post by Niyu.Cuatro »

Anima117 wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2024 7:46 am
For the last bit, I think the way it will work is, every time an item is processed further, the spoilage will slow down. THey said a few minutes to a few hours. Probably the start of your line will rot extremely fast. After being processed into a secondary product, they'll maybe take 15 minutes to rot. Then maybe 45 minutes, then 1h30, etc etc? If you process the short shelf items fast, without delay or buffering, the rest is probably smooth sailing. I saw a lot of people wonder about transportation by train, but they seem to not take into consideration that the plants can be planted anywhere you like with soil. So you wont even need to worry about transporting the fruits by train, just make a new ressource node where you need it instead.
I don't think it will be that linear. For example, fruit mash could spoil faster than the whole fruit. But the final product, like the science will definitely be on the slower side of the spectrum, if not the slowest.

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Re: Friday Facts #414 - Spoils of Agriculture

Post by gnutrino »

Anima117 wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2024 7:46 am
1) All research are on Nauvis. I like the idea, but that also means the new science packs can't unlock any new recipe while you are stuck on the new planet, which would mean you can't tie the new recipes to said tech, and so the planet specific tech can't be locked to the new science packs, only post-content can.
I think they covered this in an earlier FFF covering trigger research. Presumably you will be able to trigger research your way back to rockets on each planet and then ship the new science packs back to Nauvis to get more advanced research (and/or get yourself back to Nauvis to fix your base if things go tits up).

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Re: Friday Facts #414 - Spoils of Agriculture

Post by GregoriusT »

I think the difference between regular Oil and Gleba Oil is that you probably will not need Coal to make Plastic out of the stuff in some way shape or form. That and probably also Heavy Oil being a far lower fraction of the process, maybe even no Heavy Oil at all and it gives Lubricant directly.
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Re: Friday Facts #414 - Spoils of Agriculture

Post by wobbycarly »

Saphira123456 wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2024 7:34 am
Lizzy wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2024 3:40 pm
Saphira123456 wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2024 3:14 pm
Green and especially blue science takes a god-awful amount of time to produce, especially at a small scale. And modules don't help much.
Then increase the scale. That's the core challenge of this game :)

Also judging by the screenshots (fix:) purple and yellow science (as we know them today) are gone.

Also excuse me, green science is really easy even at small scales? You can get 40 SPM with 13 first level assemblers working from iron and copper plates?
That's not small-scale. That's optimum-scale. It's also ridiculous-scale.

When I say "small-scale" I mean the bare minumum to get one first-level assembler working constantly on green science. One entire week - 72 hours straight - to do all green science.

And by the way, GregoriusT recommended 24 to 48 assemblers on green science.

I never did much purple or yellow science on any of my playthroughs, even my mostly-vanilla one. Nor are they mandatory, minus the rocket silo.
Saphira123456 wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2024 8:15 am


In order to produce products on the scale we would need to directly support an industry revolving around perishable goods, such as what we see in this FFF, we would need LOTS of farms, LOTS of factories and LOTS of goods. And all with very rapid transport and buffering, with the former potentially stretching for miles.

In this game, that means trains, and lots of them.

So if you're going to include spoilage, then preservation methods are essential. Not optional. Small-scale things like you propose are completely impractical.
I don't understand you... on one hand you're saying that you want to produce green science in a single assembler to supply a base and then complain that it takes too long. On the other hand, you're seem to be willing to admit that to counter the spoilage mechanic the answer is to scale up. Which is it then? One factory of everything, or scale up where appropriate?

The "answer" to this game is nearly always "scale". Other than the recipes requiring fluid (and engines, maybe a couple of others) technically one can win the game by mining and hand-crafting everything, but then the player becomes the bottleneck. So to play the game "effectively", one scales up by building machines to work in parallel; with the player and each other. Of course it's not necessary to scale to "ridiculous-scale"! But that even definition is objective.

(This is not about me, but for example I tend to aim for 1 science/second in a starter base - 12 assemblies for red science and 10 for green. To me, that's reasonable.)

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Re: Friday Facts #414 - Spoils of Agriculture

Post by mmmPI »

[Moderated by Koub : Off topic, if you have a dispute, settle it in private]

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Re: Friday Facts #414 - Spoils of Agriculture

Post by Saphira123456 »

[Moderated by Koub : Response to moderated content, if you have a dispute, settle it in private]
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Re: Friday Facts #414 - Spoils of Agriculture

Post by Saphira123456 »

wobbycarly wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2024 10:08 am
Saphira123456 wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2024 7:34 am
Lizzy wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2024 3:40 pm
Saphira123456 wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2024 3:14 pm
Green and especially blue science takes a god-awful amount of time to produce, especially at a small scale. And modules don't help much.
Then increase the scale. That's the core challenge of this game :)

Also judging by the screenshots (fix:) purple and yellow science (as we know them today) are gone.

Also excuse me, green science is really easy even at small scales? You can get 40 SPM with 13 first level assemblers working from iron and copper plates?
That's not small-scale. That's optimum-scale. It's also ridiculous-scale.

When I say "small-scale" I mean the bare minumum to get one first-level assembler working constantly on green science. One entire week - 72 hours straight - to do all green science.

And by the way, GregoriusT recommended 24 to 48 assemblers on green science.

I never did much purple or yellow science on any of my playthroughs, even my mostly-vanilla one. Nor are they mandatory, minus the rocket silo.
Saphira123456 wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2024 8:15 am


In order to produce products on the scale we would need to directly support an industry revolving around perishable goods, such as what we see in this FFF, we would need LOTS of farms, LOTS of factories and LOTS of goods. And all with very rapid transport and buffering, with the former potentially stretching for miles.

In this game, that means trains, and lots of them.

So if you're going to include spoilage, then preservation methods are essential. Not optional. Small-scale things like you propose are completely impractical.
I don't understand you... on one hand you're saying that you want to produce green science in a single assembler to supply a base and then complain that it takes too long. On the other hand, you're seem to be willing to admit that to counter the spoilage mechanic the answer is to scale up. Which is it then? One factory of everything, or scale up where appropriate?

The "answer" to this game is nearly always "scale". Other than the recipes requiring fluid (and engines, maybe a couple of others) technically one can win the game by mining and hand-crafting everything, but then the player becomes the bottleneck. So to play the game "effectively", one scales up by building machines to work in parallel; with the player and each other. Of course it's not necessary to scale to "ridiculous-scale"! But that even definition is objective.

(This is not about me, but for example I tend to aim for 1 science/second in a starter base - 12 assemblies for red science and 10 for green. To me, that's reasonable.)
The problem here is, I don't quite understand the game. Or for that matter, the devs. On one hand, they want to encourage you to build small to avoid the spoilage bottleneck, like this FFF implies. On the other hand, building as per 1.1, small is a good way to get ridiculously inefficient assemblers, where you need multi-day-long build times to get anything done.

You say it's not necessary to scale to ridiculous scale, but even GregoriusT says that the ratio you need even for red science is absurd.

I hope they're massively speeding up the time it takes to produce all science packs - like one science pack a second from a single assembler, no matter if it's simple red science or massively hyper-advanced space science - or the spoilage mechanic is out the window before it even gets going.

The fastest you can complete the game as a casual is a long six hours. Half of a day.

So-called "world record holders" beat it in one hour. I say if you can't beat a game in under thirty minutes as a single, casual player, then the game shouldn't qualify as capable of having a "world record", It's like betting on which snail will win a human-scaled marathon, the judges are more likely to fall asleep than pay attention!

The game totters along at the pace of a tree sloth, there's no way in hell you're going to be able to complete any sort of anything Gleba without waiting hours for a single fruit byproduct because small scales are horrifyingly inefficent and slow.
Last edited by Saphira123456 on Tue Jun 11, 2024 2:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Friday Facts #414 - Spoils of Agriculture

Post by FuryoftheStars »

[Moderated by Koub : Response to moderated content]

Saphira123456 wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2024 2:38 pm
The problem here is, I don't quite understand the game. On one hand, they want to encourage you to build small to avoid the spoilage bottleneck, like this FFF implies. On the other hand, building as per 1.1, small is a good way to get ridiculously inefficient assemblers, where you need multi-day-long build times to get anything done.
That's because the devs are purposely trying to shift the dynamic for this planet specifically.
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Re: Friday Facts #414 - Spoils of Agriculture

Post by Saphira123456 »

FuryoftheStars wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2024 2:44 pm
Saphira123456 wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2024 2:17 pm
mmmPI wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2024 10:36 am
Saphira123456 wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2024 7:19 am
I was talking to GregoriusT. Not you mmmPI.
Sorry since it was public and not a private message i received the notification for the quotation and misunderstood it ^^, i thought you were thanking ME as responsible for the improvement in your gameplay compared to the several FFF where you repeadly mentionned only using one assembler and complained making green science was too slow. But reading your other post, i realized that no, you actually attempted to spam on the topic again despite being told your argument aren't convincing by none other than :
Koub wrote:
Mon Feb 26, 2024 11:49 am
@Saphira : you'll never convince anyone ever that your very specific way of playing is the way, and the devs should make the game a whole lot different just for you. Just enjoy it, and that's fine
@The others trying to prove Saphira wrong : don't ever try bothering, convincing will never happen (I wouldn't try convincing a vegan they're wrong, unrelated to the fact they are actually right or wrong, same logic).
I'm not spamming, and someone else asked. Just like you're asking to be moderated.
You are when you post several posts back to back instead of putting them all into one.

Saphira123456 wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2024 2:38 pm
The problem here is, I don't quite understand the game. On one hand, they want to encourage you to build small to avoid the spoilage bottleneck, like this FFF implies. On the other hand, building as per 1.1, small is a good way to get ridiculously inefficient assemblers, where you need multi-day-long build times to get anything done.
That's because the devs are purposely trying to shift the dynamic for this planet specifically.
Then the devs are contradicting themselves here.

Best times in this game are utterly ridiculous in how slow they are, at least in 1.1.

Bear in mind that a world-record speedrun is under an hour. A fast casual run takes half a real-world day. A Spoonless run has a maximum time allowable of eight hours. That's a full real-world eight-to-five workday.

This game is as slow as a tree sloth on a hot summer's day in the jungle. They're not going to change any dynamics on any planet if they keep it the way it is. It's like they don't even playtest their own game, which we all know is not true. You can literally watch them play in the sped-up examples of WiP gameplay they have right here on these FFFs!

[Moderated by Koub : No personal attacks, the devs deserve the same respect as anyone else]
Come on, people. You're all smarter than this.
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Re: Friday Facts #414 - Spoils of Agriculture

Post by FuryoftheStars »

Saphira123456 wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2024 2:46 pm
Then the devs are contradicting themselves here.

Best times in this game are utterly ridiculous in how slow they are, at least in 1.1.

Bear in mind that a world-record speedrun is under an hour. A fast casual run takes half a real-world day. A Spoonless run has a maximum time allowable of eight hours. That's a full real-world eight-to-five workday.

This game is as slow as a tree sloth on a hot summer's day in the jungle. They're not going to change any dynamics on any planet if they keep it the way it is. It's like they don't even playtest their own game, which we all know is not true. You can literally watch them play in the sped-up examples of WiP gameplay they have right here on these FFFs!

[Moderated by Koub : No personal attacks, the devs deserve the same respect as anyone else]
Come on, people. You're all smarter than this.
That's what this game is. Obviously it's not what you want, but that is what the devs and the rest of us who play want.
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Re: Friday Facts #414 - Spoils of Agriculture

Post by mmmPI »

Oh, the Spoilage Mechanic —where do I even begin? Gather around, dear Factorio enthusiasts and fellow constructors of the ultimate automative utopia, for I am about to elucidate, expound, and indeed, pontificate on one of the most overlooked, underappreciated, and dare I say, criminally underrated aspects of our beloved industrial odyssey. Yes, I speak of none other than the Spoilage Mechanic, that unsung hero, the quiet sentinel of our logistics and inventory systems, often relegated to the status of misunderstood feature gamemeplay, yet so crucial, so integral to the immersive experience that Factorio is up to offer.

Allow me to paint you a picture: Imagine a world where our pristine assembly lines churn out goods with impeccable precision, where every conveyor belt hums a harmonious tune, and where efficiency reigns supreme. Now, envision that same world, besmirched by the inevitable decay of time and neglect, where resources—so painstakingly harvested, refined, and transported—begin to wither and spoil, casting a shadow over our meticulously planned operations. The Spoilage Mechanic introduces a layer of complexity that transcends mere logistics. It is a stark reminder of the impermanence of all things, a memento mori in the mechanical ballet of Factorio. ( reminder that we are mortal like the fruits who decay ).

Yet, so many players dismiss it, scoffing at the notion that their precious iron plates or circuit boards might deteriorate. "Why," they ask, "should I concern myself with spoilage when there are aliens to fend off and rocket ships to launch?" To them, I say: the Spoilage Mechanic is not a mere inconvenience; it is a challenge, an opportunity to elevate your gameplay to new heights of strategic genius. It demands foresight, planning, and an unwavering commitment to maintaining the integrity of your supply chains. It transforms your storage depots into living entities that require constant care and vigilance, imbuing them with a semblance of life and urgency.

Consider the joy of devising intricate refrigeration systems, of monitoring the ebb and flow of perishable goods with a watchful eye, of ensuring that your high-tech components do not languish in some forgotten chest but are swiftly and efficiently integrated into your ever-expanding empire. The Spoilage Mechanic rewards those who dare to engage with it, who see beyond the superficial tedium and recognize the profound depth it adds to the game.

And let us not forget the narrative it weaves. In a game where we play the role of an indefatigable engineer, marooned on an alien planet, the Spoilage Mechanic is a poignant reminder of our vulnerability, of the relentless march of entropy. It challenges us to adapt, to innovate, to strive ever harder against the inexorable decay that threatens our creations. It is a testament to the resilience of the human spirit, manifest in gears and circuits, in conveyor belts and assembly machines.

So, fellow builders of dreams, I implore you: do not disregard the Spoilage Mechanic. Embrace it. Revel in its complexity. Allow it to test the mettle of your logistical prowess. For in doing so, you will uncover a richer, more rewarding Factorio experience, one where every decision carries weight, every moment counts, and the triumph of overcoming decay is sweeter than ever before.

And As if my earlier accolades weren't enough to convince you of its paramount importance, let us now delve even deeper into its virtues and why it is most deserving of its very own planet—a unique realm within the vast expanse of Factorio where its intricate dance can unfold in all its glory, unencumbered and unappreciated no more.

Imagine, if you will, a planet specifically designed to showcase the Spoilage Mechanic's full potential—a veritable Eden of entropy, a celestial stage where perishability is not merely a feature, but the central, driving force of your industrial saga. On this planet, the very fabric of existence is woven with the threads of decay and renewal, where every resource you gather, every product you craft, is subject to the relentless march of time.

Such a planet would be a haven for those who seek to test their mettle against the ultimate logistical challenge. Picture the rich, fertile fields teeming with perishable crops that must be harvested with utmost precision, stored in climate-controlled warehouses, and transported swiftly to prevent spoilage. Visualize vast oceans brimming with delicate marine resources that, once brought ashore, require immediate processing to avoid decay. Envision mines yielding not just the traditional ores but farms harvesting towers for rare, unstable and fruits that degrade if not handled with meticulous care.

In this land of fleeting treasures, the spoilage mechanic to me shine as the true protagonist. The urgency it introduces would transform your approach to automation and logistics, demanding not just efficiency but ingenuity. You would design intricate networks of just in time manufacturing, and rapid transit systems to ensure your resources remain viable. The very essence of your factories would shift from mere production to timed manufacturing, adding a profound layer of strategy and foresight.

Furthermore, a planet dedicated to the spoilage mechanic offer unparalleled opportunities for storytelling within the game. Here, the narrative of survival and adaptation would be woven into every facet of your industrial empire. The relentless struggle against spoilage would become a symbol of resilience, a testament to your ability to overcome nature's inexorable decay. Each successful delivery of perishable goods, each cleverly designed storage solution, would be a triumph, a victory against the odds that adds depth and meaning to your journey.

Indeed, the spoilage mechanic really deserves a planet of its own, a realm where its complexities and challenges can be fully explored and appreciated. It does elevate Factorio to new heights of strategic depth and immersive storytelling, offering players a fresh, invigorating experience that celebrates the beauty of impermanence and the art of preservation.

i have observed that very few, yet blistering remarks showing that ,among us, some lost players may harbor reservations or even a degree of consternation towards this mechanic. To those individuals, I say: your concerns are understandable, yet perhaps rooted in a partial understanding of the developers' grand vision. It is entirely natural to feel a sense of apprehension when confronted with a feature that demands a paradigm shift in our approach to gameplay. However, let us not be hasty in our judgments. The Spoilage Mechanic is not an arbitrary challenge thrown into our beloved game for the sake of difficulty; it is a meticulously crafted element designed to enhance the depth and realism of our industrial endeavors. The developers, in their infinite wisdom, have envisioned a rich tapestry of interwoven systems where spoilage adds a layer of complexity and immersion that transforms our logistical strategies. Fear not, for clarity is on the horizon. As the expansion unfolds and further elucidations are provided—be it in the forthcoming updates or the highly anticipated next Friday Facts —I am confident that the full picture will emerge. We will come to appreciate the profound intent behind this mechanic, recognizing it as a catalyst for innovation and strategic brilliance. So, let us keep an open mind and trust in the devs' masterful orchestration, for the true beauty of Gleba's spoilage mechanic will soon be revealed in all its glory.

Now, i'd like to take a moment to commend those among us who engage in constructive speculation, those intrepid players who, despite the current lack of comprehensive information about the expansion's entirety, are able to discern the broader implications and potential benefits of these new mechanics. Your insightful analyses and forward-thinking discussions are invaluable to our community. They remind me that in the absence of complete details, premature criticism can often be unfounded and hasty. Instead, your reasoned speculations provide a beacon of thoughtful consideration, highlighting the importance of patience and the virtue of reserving final judgment until all pieces of the puzzle are laid before us.

Hopefully the style and form of this particular message better suit the expectations of this forum, it took quite a while to gather some of my positive thoughts.

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Re: Friday Facts #414 - Spoils of Agriculture

Post by aka13 »

Y'all are going to get another intersting FFF locked feeding the usual suspects, as you did multiple times before, I see it already.

Regarding on topic commentary - I have seen what ONI does with spoilage, and most of it is unfun, and remains unfun until lategame, where you get "official" tools to level it out. Before that, hacky ways are used to circumvent it. I have hopes, that Wube has better success with it.
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Re: Friday Facts #414 - Spoils of Agriculture

Post by mmmPI »

FuryoftheStars wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2024 5:07 pm
That's what this game is. Obviously it's not what you want, but that is what the devs and the rest of us who play want.
My background in fruit picking and experience in dealing with rotten things makes me say you are right. After all wine and cheese are made of spoiled goods :), cheese and wine are goods therefore spoilage mechanic is good in the game !

Sorry for not developing more the logic of the argument, i realized from the (earlier) previous posts it is not necessary to share one's opinion, so i shared mine without using logic arguments except at the end :)

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Re: Friday Facts #414 - Spoils of Agriculture

Post by FuryoftheStars »

aka13 wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2024 6:58 pm
Y'all are going to get another intersting FFF locked feeding the usual suspects, as you did multiple times before, I see it already.
None have actually been locked, yet, just moderators putting their foot down and ending the conversation. Others are still free to comment on there all they want.
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Re: Friday Facts #414 - Spoils of Agriculture

Post by mmmPI »

If one does care about factual information, then both of you are wrong, a single FFF has been locked so far. Not multiple, not 0.

I do share the belief that it is due to "feeding usual suspect" albeit i'm afraid it will constitute a personnal attack to say it, in case this sentence can be removed so that the "usual suspect" do not feel incriminated for its action.

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Re: Friday Facts #414 - Spoils of Agriculture

Post by RoastCabose »

Saphira123456 wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2024 2:46 pm
FuryoftheStars wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2024 2:44 pm
Saphira123456 wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2024 2:17 pm
mmmPI wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2024 10:36 am
Saphira123456 wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2024 7:19 am
I was talking to GregoriusT. Not you mmmPI.
Sorry since it was public and not a private message i received the notification for the quotation and misunderstood it ^^, i thought you were thanking ME as responsible for the improvement in your gameplay compared to the several FFF where you repeadly mentionned only using one assembler and complained making green science was too slow. But reading your other post, i realized that no, you actually attempted to spam on the topic again despite being told your argument aren't convincing by none other than :
Koub wrote:
Mon Feb 26, 2024 11:49 am
@Saphira : you'll never convince anyone ever that your very specific way of playing is the way, and the devs should make the game a whole lot different just for you. Just enjoy it, and that's fine
@The others trying to prove Saphira wrong : don't ever try bothering, convincing will never happen (I wouldn't try convincing a vegan they're wrong, unrelated to the fact they are actually right or wrong, same logic).
I'm not spamming, and someone else asked. Just like you're asking to be moderated.
You are when you post several posts back to back instead of putting them all into one.

Saphira123456 wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2024 2:38 pm
The problem here is, I don't quite understand the game. On one hand, they want to encourage you to build small to avoid the spoilage bottleneck, like this FFF implies. On the other hand, building as per 1.1, small is a good way to get ridiculously inefficient assemblers, where you need multi-day-long build times to get anything done.
That's because the devs are purposely trying to shift the dynamic for this planet specifically.
Then the devs are contradicting themselves here.

Best times in this game are utterly ridiculous in how slow they are, at least in 1.1.

Bear in mind that a world-record speedrun is under an hour. A fast casual run takes half a real-world day. A Spoonless run has a maximum time allowable of eight hours. That's a full real-world eight-to-five workday.

This game is as slow as a tree sloth on a hot summer's day in the jungle. They're not going to change any dynamics on any planet if they keep it the way it is. It's like they don't even playtest their own game, which we all know is not true. You can literally watch them play in the sped-up examples of WiP gameplay they have right here on these FFFs!

[Moderated by Koub : No personal attacks, the devs deserve the same respect as anyone else]
Come on, people. You're all smarter than this.
I'm confused at what your point here is. Are you saying that a speed run in under an hour is slow? That finishing a game in under 8 hours is far too slow? I mean, I'm pretty sure the average person launches a rocket in Factorio from first picking up the game in somewhere between 30-100 hours, if ever. I didn't launch a rocket until I hit hour 300, but that's more because I have restart-itis and it took me a long time to internalize some lessons about leaving things to be "good enough".

I suppose I just don't quite understand what you implying by saying the game is "slow", and by what standard it's slow.

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Re: Friday Facts #414 - Spoils of Agriculture

Post by aka13 »

mmmPI wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2024 7:30 pm
If one does care about factual information, then both of you are wrong, a single FFF has been locked so far. Not multiple, not 0.

I do share the belief that it is due to "feeding usual suspect" albeit i'm afraid it will constitute a personnal attack to say it, in case this sentence can be removed so that the "usual suspect" do not feel incriminated for its action.
RIght, I just doublechecked, it was only one, my apologies. The first time I participated in the feeding and it seemed like it got locked as well.
Had a sensible chuckle at your almost corporate-grade evasive maneuvers in the second part of the post :D.

I wonder, will quality affect spoilage somehow?
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Re: Friday Facts #414 - Spoils of Agriculture

Post by FuryoftheStars »

mmmPI wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2024 7:30 pm
If one does care about factual information, then both of you are wrong, a single FFF has been locked so far. Not multiple, not 0.

I do share the belief that it is due to "feeding usual suspect" albeit i'm afraid it will constitute a personnal attack to say it, in case this sentence can be removed so that the "usual suspect" do not feel incriminated for its action.
Whoops, you're right! Thanks for the correction. :D
aka13 wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2024 7:41 pm
I wonder, will quality affect spoilage somehow?
Hmm, I thought I saw something about no quality for spoilables, but I can't go back and reread right now.
My Mods: Classic Factorio Basic Oil Processing | Sulfur Production from Oils | Wood to Oil Processing | Infinite Resources - Normal Yield | Tree Saplings (Redux) | Alien Biomes Tweaked | Restrictions on Artificial Tiles | New Gear Girl & HR Graphics

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