Friday Facts #394 - Assembler flipping and circuit control

[Tungro]

I've just one question for you outstanding devs, when is the freakin' release date? Are you on track with the previous estimated release date? Great additions as usual, keep it up and thank you!!!

[Gergely]

Regarding the Stack inserter and Bulk inserter name FLIP, you better do something about "inserter stack size bonus", "override stack size" and more.

[ElderAxe]

I hate that the pumpjack output always changes its position when you rotate.
With 2.0 please move the pipe exit of the pumpjack to the center to solve the inconsistencies with it.

[SupplyDepoo]

This made me thinking... Can you dump fluids in assemblers? If yes, how does it work? If not... this can be abused to destroy fluids automatically. You could be automatically resetting a recipe which takes an undesired fluid.

Maybe the fluid is pushed out back to the input pipe, like when you remove entities with fluid in them (pipes, fluid tanks, etc). We would need to drain the input pipe with a circuit-controlled pump before letting the new fluid in.

[guy-732]

Finally, we can put Chemical Plants for Oil Cracking next to each other without gaps between them while using less space with the pipes than... whatever mess we need to do right now.

[NullEntropy]

Hey everyone!

Soooo.... I've been seeing a lots of cool updates.Is it possible to play/test them?

[Dayanto]

Regarding the Stack inserter and Bulk inserter name FLIP, you better do something about "inserter stack size bonus", "override stack size" and more.

The devs have already started referring to it as "hand" and "hand capacity", so that should be an easy fix.

[ombus]

Regarding the Stack inserter and Bulk inserter name FLIP, you better do something about "inserter stack size bonus", "override stack size" and more.

I would guess a simple change from stack to bulk size bonus would fix it ? if only affects to that

[Tooster]

Or you could do the far more sensible thing, and allow people to configure which physical input/output corresponds to which item required/produced.

Having a fixed order or heavy, light, gas will always create problems with flipping.

But if you just have it input/output heavy, light, gas and *I* can choose which of its input/output pipes are which, then rotation logic isn't required.

Yup, configuration could be far better than simple flipping. And in terms of complexity it could potentially be stored in an integer using Lehmer codes of input/output permutations (even the "final boss" with 9 connections in SE could be encoded because 9!=362880)

[Straugh]

Some of what you have done is a QOL improvement. From a different perspective, they are opening up the potential for a whole new level of automation.

It would be really nice if the storage/cargo "recipes" where the slots are locked down could be named, assigned, and globally managed. Then, like the machines, the recipe for it can be reassigned via a circuit.

In other words, the whole concept of recipe/blueprint, groups, and being able to reassign it can be applied to almost anything in the game which can be configured.

Take this concept to the next level with trains where you can build a train and cargo wagons, put them on the tracks, insert accessories, assign the schedule, assign the cargo recipe, and send it on its way. This concept applies to spidertrons and rockets as well. The circuits can report the number of whatever in a group to allow creating more of this group or maybe even destroying it.

Maybe some of these concepts are unlocked with logistic technologies and only apply to logistic type storage. If that means we need logistic trains and cargo wagons, that works too.

[kajacx]

Every building should be flipable. If you can't flip pumpjack because their connections are wierd AF, just change it so that it can be flipped. There is not much practical use for reusing blueprints with pumpjacks, but what's the alternative? Keep the horrible design for the end of time?

[BrickNukem]

Why wouldn't buildings also be mirrored visually? Notably the refinery. Is it because of something like the directionality of shadows?

[WhatNo]

I don't see anybody asking the important questions. Will flipping work with rail signals???

[vark111]

I don't see anybody asking the important questions. Will flipping work with rail signals???

And stations!

[Cerberus]

Awesome that we can finally flip chemical blueprints.

About the fluids in assembly machine which get a recipe change: I agree this can be abused to get rid of unwanted fluids. My proposed solution: give EVERY placed assembly machine which has a recipe containing a fluid also output fluid pipe. Fluids must first successfully exit before the recipe can be changed and the next item crafted.
Fluids can't be mixed but in case recipes with different fluids get set the player will likely just make a barrel in the assembly machine right after the output pipe. (player also has to insert fluids straight from barrel, without pipes in between, anyway, to use this "change recipe" function in an automated way otherwise it is not possible)

[alefu]

I don't know if I miss something, but what signal will you send to an assembler to select the recipe? Especially with mods it is not possible to select the recipe just by specifying the output item, as there are often multiple recipes with the same product or recipes with multiple products. Will there be additional signal types for each recipe in the (modded) game?

[Qon]

Why wouldn't buildings also be mirrored visually? Notably the refinery. Is it because of something like the directionality of shadows?

The perspective would be completely wrong, they would have to add flipped graphics generated from mirrored 3D models. Just like each rotation needs its own picture. Seems like a massive amount of extra work and VRAM usage and demand from mods for something that doesn't even make much sense in the first place, why would the building be flipped?

[Qon]

Awesome that we can finally flip chemical blueprints.

About the fluids in assembly machine which get a recipe change: I agree this can be abused to get rid of unwanted fluids. My proposed solution: give EVERY placed assembly machine which has a recipe containing a fluid also output fluid pipe. Fluids must first successfully exit before the recipe can be changed and the next item crafted.
Fluids can't be mixed but in case recipes with different fluids get set the player will likely just make a barrel in the assembly machine right after the output pipe. (player also has to insert fluids straight from barrel, without pipes in between, anyway, to use this "change recipe" function in an automated way otherwise it is not possible)

Doesn't matter. We can even void items automatically in SA, why would fluid voiding be something we want to keep at all costs even if it makes everything just a big hassle. I would agree if we had reasonably good tools for fluid mixing and separation, but we don't so it doesn't make sense.

[Qon]

I don't know if I miss something, but what signal will you send to an assembler to select the recipe? Especially with mods it is not possible to select the recipe just by specifying the output item, as there are often multiple recipes with the same product or recipes with multiple products. Will there be additional signal types for each recipe in the (modded) game?

They just need to add signals for each recipe. It can easily be done automatically, the crafting combinator mod does this already when it implements this feature.

[picklock]

Another awesome FFF.

The assembling machine circuit control gives us further possibilities to control and adapt production.