Friday Facts #381 - Space Platforms

[mm.lion]

I'm very sorry, but why are stars moving while thrusters are on? I think, they should not...

[FuryoftheStars]

It's a trade-off, though. Either you have folks complaining about the realism of the platform being its own constructor, or you have folks complaining about the realism of independently floating, small thruster powered objects somehow keeping pace with the rocket propelled platform and updating speeds instantly, even when low on power. The platform method, imo, is better. Is it the best? Maybe, maybe not.

I think it's fair to say realism was killed a long time ago. We live with "Factorio-realism", and it's not a complaint.

And yet, we already have several posts complaining about the "magic" of the platforms....

Keeping pace? It's only relative. Robots don't have to be thruster powered; we have shield technology. This strongly implies we can manipulate local gravity with a few personal solar panels, which gives them three-dimensional movement. Given that personal shields can stop 300 km/h trains, they likely can accelerate the little buggers, which only needs relative acceleration

Not entirely sure where the logic comes from that an energy field that acts like a wall is manipulating gravity and thus can also be used for acceleration, but whatever. I'm honestly not interested in debating the finer details. That wasn't the point of my post.

It's not a requirement that spacebots encounter low power, especially with the lore that the entire space platform has power

Except that doesn't actually make a bit of difference. Planet bots don't care about a power grid, either.

For gameplay wise, I greatly look forward to logistic bots. I don't find solving belt puzzles all game "fun". I did it with my main factory ad nauseum. Let me enjoy the fruits of my labor and give me *different* puzzles than forced belts; that was done already.

Ultimately, though, so far, it seems like there isn't actually a lot you need to construct on the platforms. Fuel (and oxidizer) and ammo that I can remember off from the top of my head. Water if you want to bring in Nuclear. There shouldn't be the need for overly big or complex belt setups with that (especially seems some of those products then require pipes). Couple that with no chests of any kind, that any logistic chest is technically open to both logi and con bots, and similar for any roboports and its bot slots, and that's probably the real reason for no bots.

[NineNine]

Absolutely ridiculous. I love it.

[doktorstick]

Ultimately, though, so far, it seems like there isn't actually a lot you need to construct on the platforms. Fuel (and oxidizer) and ammo that I can remember off from the top of my head. Water if you want to bring in Nuclear. There shouldn't be the need for overly big or complex belt setups with that (especially seems some of those products then require pipes). Couple that with no chests of any kind, that any logistic chest is technically open to both logi and con bots, and similar for any roboports and its bot slots, and that's probably the real reason for no bots.

If you're right, then that'd be great (for me). I have doubts, though. I've inferred "puzzle" as carrying a lot of weight in this statement: Robots [are not allowed] so the platform remains a belt logistic puzzle. And later: ... fancy a gigantic platform that can craft its own components mid-flight? There are quite a few more things to try, but more about that some other day...

[keks244]

I'm very sorry, but why are stars moving while thrusters are on? I think, they should not...

For the same reason why the entire physics of the platform and floating items is wrong.
-> Gameplay and visual feedback of certain actions.

But anyway.
I'm curious if we will see a new assembler model.
The current one looks like a bit out of place next to all the new buildings.

[MP23]

Looks so exciting !
I also agree with others that quality makes more sense now!

[Jesperhk]

I really really like the Borderlands look of the new graphics, i wish every thing would be overhauled by this, the cartoony look is perfect.. atleast imo.

[varundevan]

Suggestion 1 - add robots to space platform
Requesting to add robots to the space platform to add more capability to it.
for an instance , robots can repair space platform if got hit and damaged by asteroids
Robots , can build space platform as per the blueprint once the items are delivered on board or made on board from asteroids

Suggestion 2 - add new items for space platform
Add an item - shield to the space platform to prevent itself rather than having just guns.
Add photonic guns , like the kind that you see in star trek and let it use electricity
Add warp drive may be ... to be to increase the speed of travel of the space platform.. in the final stages of the game - how about a worm hole between plants that significantly reduces the travel time.

[mcmase]

Hmm... The surface texture of the platform seems a bit noisy and quite hard to look at. It's all blending into one mosaic with other entities on the platform due to all those small bits and pieces on the surface. It's pretty hard to tell where the entity begins and where it ends

I must start by saying that the past few months have made Fridays something I look forward to tremendously. I have loved reading every FFF multiple times for details and can't wait to finally play the expansion. Saw this comment though as soon as I jumped over to the forums, and I must say I agree completely and have thought so since the first FFF in this cycle... I love the overall feel (especially of the side of the platform) but I also think toning down the detail slightly on the platform while increasing the contrast with the other entities would do wonders for the feel of building something new.

I love everything else about this post. It doesn't make complete sense in my brain yet because we don't have all the details and events and progression that will have to happen for each player to make space platforms a reality, but I can't wait to discover everything you've done in the expansion for myself. It truly feels like an entire new game, probably more than double the content that released in V1.0.

I have been hyped for quality since day 1 (but change the names please please please), I never understood those who were against it (though as you replied in the next FFF, people enjoy games differently). New trains look amazing. Every little QoL update and ghost entity improvement and bot logic changes and down to the tiniest detail (including so much that will be added even for non-expansion players) makes me love this game even more.

I can't wait to launch into space for the first time (again!) and see what it has to offer. I love that there are "enemies" in space with the new asteroids (hoping for something more challenging possibly as you venture further). Don't know if this has/will be answered in a FFF but it appears that the player can't walk around a platform? "Platform building will be done completely in ghost mode" or something to that effect--which makes sense as you don't want to require players to build avenues for walking on the limited space, but then how will the player reach other planets? Or will planets be done in ghost mode as well? I would hope to feel like I'M exploring different worlds, not just sending my minions. I tend to do a lot of local building, even in my late game worlds, using radar building for minor tasks and fixes.

I love the additional challenges and limitations (why is no bots in space somehow more exciting?) that make space platforms feel like a beast of its own.

You've nailed everything so far, keep up the amazing work. Factorio will always be a classic. You can tell so much thought and care go into each aspect of the game.

You should charge $100 for the expansion because I'd pay it.

[Slywyn]

This is one of the coolest &#%!*@? things I have ever seen. I love it to bits. I genuinely cannot wait for this expansion to come out.

When is it releasing again?

[mmmPI]

My guess would be that the Engineer can sit in the central building.

I dont know if that is very safe, asteroïds could damage the platform to the point where the thrusters can't operate leaving the engineer stuck in space same softlock as when you run out of fuel with cargoship mod forcing a reload or cheat , not very multiplayer friendly ( although you could receive help you can't reload).

Yeah, that is a good point, though it may be that the platform (once sent towards a destination) will always move, just at a very slow pace without thrusters. Will be interesting to see.

Re-reading the FFF i noticed this was actually the second sentence

Space platforms are little (or not) flying factories that act as the means of transportation between planets, both for items and players.

I don't know why i thought that if the engineer can't walk on the space platform then it's not meant for interplanetary travel for players.

Your guess may very well be the explanation after all

[Illiander42]

I have three questions:

Are cargo bays treated as part of the command center chest? Did you just give us an infinitely expandable chest?

Can we get the same graphic attention cargo bays have for joining together for beacons?

Can we go full space-nomad and build a complete base on a single platform? (This is the one thing I really hate about SE. No prod mods in space means we can't do a full nomadic factory ship)

[Saphira123456]

I'm not sure how I feel about throwing stuff overboard, as it seems a bit hypocritical.

I mean, you refuse to put in a flare stack, incinerator, or etcetera to get rid of things you don't want on planets but you allow us to dump things overboard for space platforms?

What happened to your claim of not wanting to trivialize disposal of excess items? Because this does just that.

[Saphira123456]

Suggestion 2 - add new items for space platform
Add an item - shield to the space platform to prevent itself rather than having just guns.
Add photonic guns , like the kind that you see in star trek and let it use electricity
Add warp drive may be ... to be to increase the speed of travel of the space platform.. in the final stages of the game - how about a worm hole between plants that significantly reduces the travel time.

Agree, the platform already has a very "Borg" aesthetic.

[Ohz]

Absolutly astonishing work !!! I love everything I see and read

[fusionfan]

Looks interesting. If we are talking about realism, the space platform shouldn't stop when the engines stop firing, it should continue moving... you'd need to decelerate to arrive... anyway. But a big plus for not having burners or robots in space! And i love the idea of space salvage and the tradeoffs on size. I always loved small compact builds but was never really good at it. Extra motivation I see.

Would you consider adding something akin to condenser turbines for nuclear power? Not wasting water isn't exactly rocket science, IRL turbines do condense the water back...

There are comments on the complexity of delivery to space or spaceship automation in Space Exploration. No offence, but these can be rather easy. The "bad" example you have in the FFF is just bad design - the request could be handled via circuit network. My experience on the SE discord is that most people overcomplicate things in that mod. Stocking a space station in SE using the current logistics available in factorio requires a few handful of combinators thanks to the set request via circuit network feature of blue chests. The direct requests are nice of course, but this merely saves a bit of wire (or the effort of copy+pasting a logistic blueprint from somebody).

Spaceship automation in SE can be trivially done with a single constant + decider combinator combo. I have built very large SE bases (700 spm DSS4). My most complicated spaceship uses maybe 7 combinators, these feature automated arco collection with shortcuts and whatnot. Having a train-like schedule of course greatly simplifies things, but there goes my motivation to learn circuit networks

But anyways, I'm excited to see what the future holds! Keep the good stuff coming.

[FuryoftheStars]

I'm not sure how I feel about throwing stuff overboard, as it seems a bit hypocritical.

I mean, you refuse to put in a flare stack, incinerator, or etcetera to get rid of things you don't want on planets but you allow us to dump things overboard for space platforms?

What happened to your claim of not wanting to trivialize disposal of excess items? Because this does just that.

I think the reasoning here may be because you're much more space constrained with limited storage space. If you build it big enough with enough storage extensions, then you may not have to dump anything. But they have mentioned more advanced techs that could potentially use some of the additional resources you'll get in, so until you have the resource need, it's gotta go somewhere.... :/

Edit: Oh, but this does make me wonder if this behavior would be moddable to allow dumping in water....

[wizcreations]

Crusher animation

Really needs something to show whether or not something is currently being crushed. Add some bouncing debris or something. Even better, color it to match the output: blue for iron, black for coal, etc.

[wizcreations]

The thruster animation ruins the realism of the space environment. If a thruster is constantly firing, the platform will be constantly accelerating (not just moving). Realistically, a thruster is only needed to achieve a change in velocity, meaning you fire the thruster to start moving, stop firing the thruster when you achieved your desired speed, and then you fire a thruster in the opposite direction to slow/stop moving. Also, a single thruster is sufficient to move a platform of any size--it would just take a lot longer for a heavier platform.

I get the reason to not put thrusters on every side of the platform as that would be quite annoying; however, there should be some platform drift after the thrusters turn off. I'm happy for you to say there is some drag in space from asteroids or dust that eventually causes the platform to stop moving. As is though, it looks horribly unrealistic in the gif for the platform to immediately stop after the 7 thrusters turn off.

And what is with all the smoke? What fuel are you burning that has that much carbon as a biproduct? I'd expect the fuel to be Hydrogen, Nitrogen, and/or Oxygen based. In your case it looks like you're burning Methane or Kerosine.

(I'm an Astronautical Engineer with a focus on rocket propulsion and orbit design. Happy to consult for free.)

[<NO_NAME>]

What's the story behinds the platforms not being allowed to have holes?