Friday Facts #225 - Bots versus belts (part 2)

Regular reports on Factorio development.

Re: Friday Facts #225 - Bots versus belts (part 2)

Postby Oktokolo » Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:45 pm

Lulz. So if i somehow need to transport more than a blue belt's throughput of rocket silos, belts are better for that?
Thanks bro! Will definitely keep that in mind for next time when i need to handle the output of a 100 silos per second outpost...
Oktokolo
Fast Inserter
Fast Inserter
 
Posts: 152
Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2017 5:45 pm

Re: Friday Facts #225 - Bots versus belts (part 2)

Postby mrvn » Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:39 pm

bobucles wrote:
Wrong. The cargo capacity is irrelevant. Since shells do not stack 48 bots are activated. Would shells stack then only 12 bots would be activated. The throughput would be the same. Only the number of bots involved changes.

What? No. You're forgetting that two things are happening at once:

- Roboports are affected because cargo size is affected.


That might cost you more roboports but they are hardly at a limit for 48 bots. Remember the test case had a line of roboports in place of the 4 blue belts. Plenty of recharge spots there for all 48 bots to recharge.

bobucles wrote:- Requester throughput is affected because total chest capacity is affected


Yes, that't the limiting factor. Not that bots only carry one shell.

What about cars, rocket silos and tanks? Are they carries one-by-one too?
mrvn
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
 
Posts: 1978
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2016 9:10 am

Re: Friday Facts #225 - Bots versus belts (part 2)

Postby Pascali » Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:02 pm

bobucles wrote:
Yes but what is the power drain caused by the bots as well as the enormous resource sink to craft the roboports, logistics bots, and chests used?

Let's see. 300 busy roboports, 4 bays, 1 MW recharge, pretty simple math. The live test hovered almost exactly at 1GW out of a theoretical max of 1200MW. It wasn't the most optimized setup for sure.

and way more easy(boring) to set up.
Pascali
Fast Inserter
Fast Inserter
 
Posts: 106
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:24 pm

Re: Friday Facts #225 - Bots versus belts (part 2)

Postby Jap2.0 » Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:42 pm

Oktokolo wrote:Lulz. So if i somehow need to transport more than a blue belt's throughput of rocket silos, belts are better for that?
Thanks bro! Will definitely keep that in mind for next time when i need to handle the output of a 100 silos per second outpost...

No problem, I'm more than happy to help!

McDuff wrote:That's a bit pedantic isn't it mate?

Surely the point is that there are some things that need to be moved in bulk and some things that don't. If it's got a stack size of one, it probably doesn't need to be moved in bulk, and therefore "throughput" is somewhat meaningless.

I mean... now we know that a blue belt is more efficient than bots for transporting fuel if you ever have 80,000 trains (if I got my math right).
There are 10 types of people: those who get this joke and those who don't.
Jap2.0
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
 
Posts: 1190
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:02 am

Re: Friday Facts #225 - Bots versus belts (part 2)

Postby Oktokolo » Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:37 pm

Jap2.0 wrote:I mean... now we know that a blue belt is more efficient than bots for transporting fuel if you ever have 80,000 trains (if I got my math right).

But is the belt more efficient than trains?
Also if already using 80k+ trains, i would probably want to keep my base pure and therefore would use trains for the fuel too - regardless of efficiency.
;)
Oktokolo
Fast Inserter
Fast Inserter
 
Posts: 152
Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2017 5:45 pm

Re: Friday Facts #225 - Bots versus belts (part 2)

Postby Jap2.0 » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:31 pm

Oktokolo wrote:
Jap2.0 wrote:I mean... now we know that a blue belt is more efficient than bots for transporting fuel if you ever have 80,000 trains (if I got my math right).

But is the belt more efficient than trains?
Also if already using 80k+ trains, i would probably want to keep my base pure and therefore would use trains for the fuel too - regardless of efficiency.
;)


True - and then you could also filter it to a set number of slots in a wagon to optimize throughput.

So, it looks like the solution to this is to use trains for everything.
There are 10 types of people: those who get this joke and those who don't.
Jap2.0
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
 
Posts: 1190
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:02 am

Re: Friday Facts #225 - Bots versus belts (part 2)

Postby Avezo » Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:47 pm

It seems to me bots could be just nerfed and map generation have some settings allowing buffing them back to current strenght, similar how you can manipulate science and recipe costs.
Image
Avezo
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
 
Posts: 296
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2016 3:53 pm

Re: Friday Facts #225 - Bots versus belts (part 2)

Postby Jap2.0 » Wed Apr 25, 2018 5:07 pm

Avezo wrote:It seems to me bots could be just nerfed and map generation have some settings allowing buffing them back to current strenght, similar how you can manipulate science and recipe costs.

I don't know whether it would be best to have the default at current strength, or nerfed - I think people would complain either way. Also, they might want similar settings for other structures - which would, admittedly, allow for some interesting challenges.
There are 10 types of people: those who get this joke and those who don't.
Jap2.0
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
 
Posts: 1190
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:02 am

Re: Friday Facts #225 - Bots versus belts (part 2)

Postby azairvine » Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:39 pm

While it wouldn't allow for a robot-only base, my idea (which has probably been mentioned 50 times already) more so reflects the Death Spell.

Limit the resources that robots can carry - ie they can only carry raw materials (wood, ores etc) and no crafted items.

Or give items a weight and robots a load capacity so that certain items simply can't be moved by robots.
azairvine
Burner Inserter
Burner Inserter
 
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2018 11:21 am

Re: Friday Facts #225 - Bots versus belts (part 2)

Postby Jap2.0 » Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:53 pm

azairvine wrote:While it wouldn't allow for a robot-only base, my idea (which has probably been mentioned 50 times already) more so reflects the Death Spell.

Limit the resources that robots can carry - ie they can only carry raw materials (wood, ores etc) and no crafted items.

Or give items a weight and robots a load capacity so that certain items simply can't be moved by robots.


The thing is (and yes, it's been suggested before - but in 100+ pages of discussion most has) that people don't like it when you straight up tell them they can't do something. You could limit stack sizes. Another problem with arbitrary weights and stuff is mods - do they have to specify a weight for everything? What is the default? Some people will say that bots are for high-variety, low-quantity transport, and if you make large, expensive stuff uncarriable by bots, it defeats that purpose.
And then there's also the whole group of people who will complain if you try to nerf bots in any way.
There are 10 types of people: those who get this joke and those who don't.
Jap2.0
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
 
Posts: 1190
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:02 am

Previous

Return to News

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Loewchen and 4 guests