Friday Facts #199 - The story of tile transitions

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Re: Friday Facts #199 - The story of tile transitions

Postby ihumangetmeoutofhere » Sun Jul 16, 2017 1:58 pm

Devs,
Often in past updates you have adapted things from mods into game, and for this particular issue, the mod Water Fix may have the answers. I've been using it for a while and IMHO it looks much better than the suggested fix for water in the FFF. It also allows concrete to be placed right up to the shore's edge. I admit, I don't actually know how a lot of this works, but possibly you may be able to integrate that mod in the update? I know its been suggested by other people also.
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Re: Friday Facts #199 - The story of tile transitions

Postby bobingabout » Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:49 am

Instead of having the file transition "Inside the grass tile" or "Inside the water tile", why not draw something right on the boarder overlapping the two? That way, both the water tile and the grass tile both look "About 32 pixels wide".
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Re: Friday Facts #199 - The story of tile transitions

Postby drozh » Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:11 am

bobingabout wrote:Instead of having the file transition "Inside the grass tile" or "Inside the water tile", why not draw something right on the boarder overlapping the two? That way, both the water tile and the grass tile both look "About 32 pixels wide".

Agree!
This way, both would be possible,
- the old tile :
Image

- and the new tile
Image
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Re: Friday Facts #199 - The story of tile transitions

Postby PacifyerGrey » Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:35 am

bobingabout wrote:Instead of having the file transition "Inside the grass tile" or "Inside the water tile", why not draw something right on the boarder overlapping the two? That way, both the water tile and the grass tile both look "About 32 pixels wide".

I do understand that adding another layer is too complex and will require complete rework.
So I will throw an idea a bit similar to this one
Make transition from grass to water through sand beach. In this case you can change both tiles - grass and water - to have small transition from sand.
This gives you several opportunities:
1. Sand beach line will be in desired position between ground and water tiles visually separating them in connection line
2. You can have a single set of such tiles for water and can have unique tiles for different ground biomes transitioning to water - all will be compatible
3. You are not really limited by a thin border to draw such transition - you can add surf etc on water tiles and whatever you wish on ground
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Re: Friday Facts #199 - The story of tile transitions

Postby Julissa Doe » Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:30 pm

PacifyerGrey wrote:
bobingabout wrote:Instead of having the file transition "Inside the grass tile" or "Inside the water tile", why not draw something right on the boarder overlapping the two? That way, both the water tile and the grass tile both look "About 32 pixels wide".

I do understand that adding another layer is too complex and will require complete rework.
So I will throw an idea a bit similar to this one
Make transition from grass to water through sand beach. In this case you can change both tiles - grass and water - to have small transition from sand.
This gives you several opportunities:
1. Sand beach line will be in desired position between ground and water tiles visually separating them in connection line
2. You can have a single set of such tiles for water and can have unique tiles for different ground biomes transitioning to water - all will be compatible
3. You are not really limited by a thin border to draw such transition - you can add surf etc on water tiles and whatever you wish on ground


This.

The problem now is deciding where the transition will begin, on the grass tile or the water tile. Having a buffer zone between the two solves a lot of texture issues.

But then, what would be in the old tile:
Image

will show up as two-tile thick grass. One tile thick grass would look better now.
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Re: Friday Facts #199 - The story of tile transitions

Postby RobertTerwilliger » Thu Jul 20, 2017 12:11 pm

I reckon someone have suggested this before, but wouldn't it be simplier to draw L-W transition on edge of tiles? Then it'll need just few transition sprites for each edge (top, right, bottom, left) (few - just for variability) and 8 corners (4 inner and 4 outer) (I believe 1 corner sprite is enough for one corner, no need to make multiple, as they're quite sparce).
Just make sure water pixels are tiny bit further than the land edge (to avoid structures partialy floatong on water), and last pixel goes no further than half a tile in both durections, to make 1-wide land AND water look correct.
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Re: Friday Facts #199 - The story of tile transitions

Postby davidjs » Sat Jul 22, 2017 10:57 am

Can only agree on what others have said.

The actual problem that you have the transition in the middle of the tile instead of on the edges. It would be a whole lot simpler if every tile was either water or land.

In both the current version of the game, and in the solution you propose there are tiles that contain both water and terrain, the user has no direct way of knowing wether they can actually build on the mixed tile.

What you need to do is to make sure a tile that is water has a sprite that contains a majority of water.

So this:
Image
Becomes
Image

Likewise, a tile that is land should contain majorly land.
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Re: Friday Facts #199 - The story of tile transitions

Postby featherwinglove » Sun Jul 23, 2017 2:52 am

I agree. Especially since we Factorio players and devs are living on the edge in so many other senses :mrgreen:
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Re: Friday Facts #199 - The story of tile transitions

Postby uber5001 » Sun Jul 23, 2017 9:31 am

Can't marching squares be used for the tiling issue? It wouldn't even require large asset changes. All it takes is offsetting the tiles halfway off the grid.

I've got a demo on github pages that shows how it would work. Here's a gif of it in action:
Image

It doesn't solve the "'tile correction logic' that we hate so much". That would likely need to be solved with sprite layering.
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Re: Friday Facts #199 - The story of tile transitions

Postby IronCartographer » Sun Jul 23, 2017 9:16 pm

uber5001 wrote:Can't marching squares be used for the tiling issue? It wouldn't even require large asset changes. All it takes is offsetting the tiles halfway off the grid.

I've got a demo on github pages that shows how it would work. Here's a gif of it in action:
Image

It doesn't solve the "'tile correction logic' that we hate so much". That would likely need to be solved with sprite layering.


-> viewtopic.php?f=6&t=51194

FFF-200 wrote:But people in the office convinced me with arguments like "FFF is the only good thing we have", so we probably have to continue for a little longer.


It's not the only good thing you have...but it's certainly one of the best! This kind of feedback is a huge part of what has made Factorio not only a cooperative game, but a cooperative experience for the developers along with the community!
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Re: Friday Facts #199 - The story of tile transitions

Postby hcf » Sun Sep 10, 2017 5:09 am

Hi,

I was thinking about the problem where the transition is drawn on the either tile it looks wierd. How about as a solution you don't allow Landfill to be used as one tile but minimun 2 tiles.
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Re: Friday Facts #199 - The story of tile transitions

Postby pleegwat » Sun Sep 10, 2017 10:24 am

That solves the landfill cheat, but that's just as easily solved by deducting multiple landfill if the tile correction logic needs to add additional land tiles.

You still need tile correction logic during normal world generation.
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