Version 0.16.24

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Supercheese
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Re: Version 0.16.24

Post by Supercheese » Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:32 pm

Added script.on_nth_tick(n, function).
AAAAaaaaaaaAAaaahhhhhhh, incredible! :shock: :D

henke37
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Re: Version 0.16.24

Post by henke37 » Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:15 pm

I take it that just using Windows error reporting wasn't an option? It's so good that Microsoft gives it away to all Windows developers for free (*).

They even published a nice paper that I recommend that everyone in this thread read. It's not long and you don't need programming skills (or math skills) to understand it.

(*): They do not charge for it, but you do need a valid code signing certificate from a certificate vendor. If you weren't already signing your executables, that's a cost.

golfmiketango
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Re: Version 0.16.24

Post by golfmiketango » Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:33 pm

FactorioBot wrote:Minor Features
  • When the game crashes, the crash log is uploaded to us. You can opt out by disabling it in the options menu.
Meh, whatevs.
FactorioBot wrote: Scripting
  • Added script.on_nth_tick(n, function).
Holy freaking crapballs! This changes everything....

patmo98
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Re: Version 0.16.24

Post by patmo98 » Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:35 pm

henke37 wrote:I take it that just using Windows error reporting wasn't an option?
Not for macOS and Linux. I haven’t asked the developers, but I would guess that they wanted the same solution on all three platforms, rather than implementing an entirely different solution on windows.

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eradicator
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Re: Version 0.16.24

Post by eradicator » Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:10 pm

A "send this report" on the error dialog where you can see the report that will be send would definetly be the better solution for various reasons:
  1. Trust. Adding an opt-out automatic error reporting system reduces the trust from your users. Far too many companies do not properly communicate what data they send home and when. I can understand why you'd want to collect as many error logs as you can get, and you don't trust your users to opt-in in large enough numbers. But then again...if you don't trust users to opt-in, why should users trust you to opt-in.
  2. Legalize. As someone mentioned opt-out is not clearly legal everywhere, but having to press a button every time would be a lot safer on the legal side.
  3. Reliability. If i know that i caused an error myself i can refrain from pressing the send button, sparing you pointless reports. Or possibly giving you precise reproduction instructions on the forums.

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Philip017
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Re: Version 0.16.24

Post by Philip017 » Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:02 pm

steinio wrote:For testing it should be opt-out, stable could be opt-in.

Everyone who plays testing should support the developers with crash reports for free.
I agree, anyone on the experimental channel should be opt-out - where logs are sent if you don't otherwise select

and stable channel should be opt-in - where unless you specifically check the box to send reports, none are sent.
- it is supposed to be stable after all, and will usually not be updated again.
although in 15 we saw a few "stable" versions before 15.40 became officially stable, despite a few bugs remaining that got squished in 16.

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impetus maximus
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Re: Version 0.16.24

Post by impetus maximus » Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:11 pm

everyone just calm down. it's going to send GAME data to the devs to help improve the game.
as others said, if it was opt-in 99% of players wouldn't. also look how many folks upload crash logs without complaint. :roll:

it's for the good of the game, and the devs are not spying on you. if you are worried about your data/privacy, look at what google is up to.

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Re: Version 0.16.24

Post by deer_buster » Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:43 pm

steinio wrote:For testing it should be opt-out, stable could be opt-in.

Everyone who plays testing should support the developers with crash reports for free.

This

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Jon8RFC
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Re: Version 0.16.24

Post by Jon8RFC » Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:05 am

I'm sure the Factorio team is sitting back, biting their tongues as best they can. I wonder if Kovarex sent out an email saying "just let them post and be angry, someone will eventually post a screenshot and we won't have to point out that we're smarter than they think, and already thought of making things anonymous. Then, when the debate ensues despite the screenshot, remain silent, and they'll eventually realize that we respect their intelligence enough for them to easily opt-out of this extremely helpful functionality. Let's continue to focus on fixing these crashes, and be grateful that we have such a great gamer base who understand that."
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Veklim
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Re: Version 0.16.24

Post by Veklim » Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:52 am

Well, now my daily dose of internet paranoia watching has been sated I'll say this, anyone worried about data privacy enough to want to opt out of this will CERTAINLY be worried enough to check every patch note carefully regarding changes anyhow, surely? At every single juncture in the development of this game since the very first time I played I have been nothing but impressed and humbled by the constant consideration and concern shown by the devs on behalf of their playerbase. I trust them to keep anonymity sacrosanct, and I would certainly hope the vast majority of players would already realise such.

Even if this was opt-in I would load up the game right now and check that box. The devs have trusted us to give feedback and assistance throughout, how about we trust them not to alienate their players. This is a wonderful, open and friendly playerbase, the very least toxic community I've ever had the joy of playing with. Let's honour that by staying open to the idea that not everyone online is trying to compromise our privacy and security, ok?

unknown_paradox
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Re: Version 0.16.24

Post by unknown_paradox » Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:35 am

thank you :)

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xZippy
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Re: Version 0.16.24

Post by xZippy » Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:03 am

Jap2.0 wrote:I agree that it shouldn't be opt-out, for privacy and various other reasons.
What kind of personal info do you think will be sent..?

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Re: Version 0.16.24

Post by Jap2.0 » Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:27 am

xZippy wrote:
Jap2.0 wrote:I agree that it shouldn't be opt-out, for privacy and various other reasons.
What kind of personal info do you think will be sent..?
Please read the other part of my post as well. This part probably could've been worded better. In a quick inspection of logs, about as much as I found for personal information was your name (although I didn't look very throughly). There are other reasons too, though - some people might not know what the file contains, or not trust the developers, or there could be legal issues (as Eradicaor pointed out).
There are 10 types of people: those who get this joke and those who don't.

PacifyerGrey
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Re: Version 0.16.24

Post by PacifyerGrey » Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:00 am

The most elegant way of dealing with log uploads is the option with dropdown listing:
  • Prompt every time
  • Upload automatically
  • Never upload
With default being "Prompt" and the prompt window having next buttons:
  • Yes
  • Always
  • No
  • Never
which will switch the option to a respective value is Always or Never is pressed.

silenced
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Re: Version 0.16.24

Post by silenced » Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:17 am

system wrote:PS: you are breaking more mods with every "minor" update... That is sad.

You made my day. Thank you. ôÔ

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impetus maximus
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Re: Version 0.16.24

Post by impetus maximus » Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:33 am

creative mode (fix for 0.16) broke with the update. fix was changing a 0 to a 1.
i don't think mod creators will have trouble updating.

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bobingabout
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Re: Version 0.16.24

Post by bobingabout » Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:06 am

DRY411S wrote:Although the logs will not (I hope) contain PII data, the EU General Data Protection Regulations (GDPR) effective May 2018 are being interpreted by most organisations that I work with, such that people must opt-in to permit data to be collected about them.
Windows 10, you can't even opt out of it's data collection. and the default is to send everything to Microsoft, including all keystrokes.

So, in theory, this opt-in, opt-out paranoia is moot anyway, because you're already sending all your information if you use windows 10.
irbork wrote:Opt-out is the way to go for now. Make it opt-in when game is released as not EA title.
Or even better - opt-out for all experimental releases and opt-in for stable ones. So anyone who do not want to participate in making the game better can stick with stable branch.
I have to agree with this... though it's hard to switch between the two if you're doing updates.

but, a one time popup, like your log in information popup sounds the way to go for me.
Last edited by bobingabout on Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:09 am, edited 2 times in total.
Creator of Bob's mods. Expanding your gameplay since version 0.9.8.

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VuiMuich
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Re: Version 0.16.24

Post by VuiMuich » Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:16 am

If the log needs to contain path to user profile it probably could be written as

Code: Select all

~/
on Unix based OS and

Code: Select all

%USERPROFILE%/
on Windows, I think.

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eradicator
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Re: Version 0.16.24

Post by eradicator » Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:47 am

Veklim wrote: I trust them to keep anonymity sacrosanct, and I would certainly hope the vast majority of players would already realise such.
Oh i trust them to want to keep the logs anonymous. But privacy is difficult, like, really difficult. If you want to see an example of how fingerprinting via something like "list of installed mods (==browser addons)" + a few other minor data points works go to https://panopticlick.eff.org/ , do the test and click "show fingerprint info" at the end.
That said even if one could fingerprint a crashlog that's not the most useful information and sure there's other companies that do really creepy data collection. But that's not the point. The point is the untransparency in which this was introduced. And if the logs are "anonymized" (aka different from factorio-current.log) i'd very much like an option to see the anonymized version so i can compare them.

Oh, and btw i'm not angry or worried or whatever name anyone wants to call me. I'm simply pointing out things. And if the opt-in/out thing actually infringes on some privacy law than there would be a real risk to wube software. And the last thing i want to see is wube going bankrupt because someone sued them over something like this.

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Re: Version 0.16.24

Post by neoc » Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:59 am

Opt-out is fine, stop with your ridiculous demands.

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