What are your thoughts on death in single player?

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o6dukeleto
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What are your thoughts on death in single player?

Post by o6dukeleto » Fri Feb 12, 2016 12:37 am

I guess some would say you lose the game because it ends. But the reality is that you just reload the last auto save and you lose about a minute of game play.

I have only played through completely once, but I have no fear of death, I am willing to try anything because of the reload mechanic.

I have watched some multiplayer lets plays and it seems like death has a much higher cost in multiplayer, I think this could be a good thing. I think my next single player game will be using multiplayer with only one player. I guess I could still reload if I die, but I my plan is to play through the "pain" of losing everything on my character when I die. I think this will force me to be more careful.

It feels like there could be some options for death of a character in single player,

- just respawn
- respawn, but all items dropped at death site (possibly the aliens would destroy them anyway...)
- resapwn, but lose everything (like multiplayer)
- iron man, game ends (single save which is deleted on death?)

What are your thoughts?

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Re: What are your thoughts on death in single player?

Post by ssilk » Fri Feb 12, 2016 12:51 am

Moved to Suggestions and I made a link to this from
https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... 80&t=13022 World Generation / Map Generator / Game Modes

EDIT: And I think there is a discussion in the same direction
https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... =80&t=7717 Can the player be killed by train? (Train kills?!)
"Same" in the way that it is about dying. :)
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Re: What are your thoughts on death in single player?

Post by _aD » Fri Feb 12, 2016 2:10 am

"I won't run across the tracks this time", or: "I'll build another signal there".

My trains are red.

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Re: What are your thoughts on death in single player?

Post by Koub » Fri Feb 12, 2016 6:29 am

Well death of character should at least terminate one's game, delete all one's saves, and maybe send some electric shocks to the player, just to make sure he regrets dying :lol:
...
Or maybe not. Whatever you decide, as long as you have autosaves, and savescumming, you're safe. There could be an Ironman option, coupled with hardcore option for the people who like self-flagellation.
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Re: What are your thoughts on death in single player?

Post by Guest_4544 » Fri Feb 12, 2016 8:21 am

Why the hell is there no option for respawning in single-player? Atleast in skirmish mode. When one host a server the player can die all the time he likes.
Through one could add somehow the spawning/teleport entity which is only available on editor then even on single player one can die all the time he wants, aslong the entity is not destroyed.

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Re: What are your thoughts on death in single player?

Post by bobingabout » Tue Feb 16, 2016 4:12 pm

It does seem a bit strange that when they added multiplayer, you get re-spawning, but single player still has the permanent death, and forces you to reload. An option for re-spawning in single player is not a bad idea.
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Re: What are your thoughts on death in single player?

Post by Yinan » Tue Feb 16, 2016 8:06 pm

Well, I just suddenly got the "game over" screen.

Apperently, I got run over by the only train I have, because I accidentally walked on the rails without realizing it while looking at my crafting screen.

good thing this game saves every 2 minutes ^^

Personally, I could live without the permanent death, especially considering that in multi player, you got to respawn. So really no point in single player with perma death.

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Re: What are your thoughts on death in single player?

Post by kiba » Wed Feb 17, 2016 10:44 am

I was thinking of building a "clone" mod that enables respawn.

But single player death hardcoded?

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Re: What are your thoughts on death in single player?

Post by Melfish » Wed Feb 17, 2016 11:14 am

I dont think enabling singleplayer respawn is a solution at all. In the end one will probably reload his save anyway.
Soo... the current system is fine?

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Re: What are your thoughts on death in single player?

Post by kiba » Wed Feb 17, 2016 11:37 am

Melfish wrote:I dont think enabling singleplayer respawn is a solution at all. In the end one will probably reload his save anyway.
Soo... the current system is fine?
One could do interesting things with respawn if it is enabled for modding, especially if you add roleplaying mechanisms.

For example, you have a cloning facility

If you die, you end up there, without your power armor and inventory. But if the facility were to say...lose power or was destroyed, you can't respawn, so you just die.

Or your memories don't sync because of loss of radio communication or insufficient bandwidth, so you end up losing experience if your cloning facility is a bit too behind.

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Re: What are your thoughts on death in single player?

Post by starholme » Wed Feb 17, 2016 2:52 pm

If you want respawn in single player, you can just play in multiplayer by yourself as well.

I'm not sure the respawn really changes anything about singleplayer. You can always reload an autosave. But for consistency, maybe it should be the same as multiplayer.

Is there any other way to see game stats other than dying?

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Re: What are your thoughts on death in single player?

Post by imajor » Wed Feb 17, 2016 3:35 pm

Melfish wrote:I dont think enabling singleplayer respawn is a solution at all. In the end one will probably reload his save anyway.
Soo... the current system is fine?
I disagree. If I could respawn, I would not reload. But right now there is no other possibility, so I reload.
starholme wrote:I'm not sure the respawn really changes anything about singleplayer. You can always reload an autosave.
There is a big difference between CAN and HAVE TO .

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Re: What are your thoughts on death in single player?

Post by Gouada » Wed Feb 24, 2016 1:57 am

I think that respawning without your items like it's in multiplayer is a good solution. Losing some research in the tech tree would be interesting as well...
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Re: What are your thoughts on death in single player?

Post by Koub » Wed Feb 24, 2016 6:46 am

Gouada wrote:Losing some research in the tech tree would be interesting as well...
Honestly, I think this a bad idea : there is no way to explain why you would de-research come already searched science upon death.
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Re: What are your thoughts on death in single player?

Post by Gouada » Wed Feb 24, 2016 6:52 am

Koub wrote:
Gouada wrote:Losing some research in the tech tree would be interesting as well...
Honestly, I think this a bad idea : there is no way to explain why you would de-research come already searched science upon death.
My idea was that if you're in the act of researching it, dying makes you lose your hard earned yet not written in stone nor complete knowledge in addition to (possibly) losing everything in your inventory. I feel that dying in this game is not punishing enough, just annoying as you have you load back a save and redo everything...
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Re: What are your thoughts on death in single player?

Post by Koub » Wed Feb 24, 2016 7:01 am

I did understand what you had in mind, but "punitiveness" of a death should imho not be "artificial". I mean, if it's just for punition, why not divide all the items collected or built in the map by 2, or destroy randomly buildings in the map ?
Besides, you don't research by yourself, research is done in a research facility. It's the character that dies, not his factory. So there is no logical justification of why research would vanish into nothingness. I'm not a hardcode "everything must be realistic in the game", but too much "wth, why?" is ... too much :)
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Re: What are your thoughts on death in single player?

Post by Yinan » Wed Feb 24, 2016 7:03 am

Gouada wrote:I feel that dying in this game is not punishing enough, just annoying as you have you load back a save and redo everything...
Which would be the same if you make dying more punishing.

Every death mechanic is bound to fail, because you can simply reload an autosave. Based on the standard settings the most you lose is 2 minutes of progress and that's it.
No matter what you do with the death mechanic (unless you make it "you lose nothing and just increase a death counter" or something like that), it will always end with players simply reloading.

So making death lose a portion of research or anything is just fruitless effor on the side of the developers.

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Re: What are your thoughts on death in single player?

Post by Gouada » Wed Feb 24, 2016 5:22 pm

Koub wrote:I did understand what you had in mind, but "punitiveness" of a death should imho not be "artificial". I mean, if it's just for punition, why not divide all the items collected or built in the map by 2, or destroy randomly buildings in the map ?
Besides, you don't research by yourself, research is done in a research facility. It's the character that dies, not his factory. So there is no logical justification of why research would vanish into nothingness. I'm not a hardcode "everything must be realistic in the game", but too much "wth, why?" is ... too much :)
Ok I understand what you're saying. Let's just make death the same as in multiplayer and be done with it in my opinion.
Yinan wrote:
Gouada wrote:I feel that dying in this game is not punishing enough, just annoying as you have you load back a save and redo everything...
Which would be the same if you make dying more punishing.

Every death mechanic is bound to fail, because you can simply reload an autosave. Based on the standard settings the most you lose is 2 minutes of progress and that's it.
No matter what you do with the death mechanic (unless you make it "you lose nothing and just increase a death counter" or something like that), it will always end with players simply reloading.

So making death lose a portion of research or anything is just fruitless effor on the side of the developers.
I don't agree... Reloading a save is always an option, but it can feel cheaty and does not agree with multiplayer. If I'm playing, I would usually just take the inventory lost hit unless if it meant I lost my first brand new power armor or had to redo hours of work. Then, to keep the game fun, I could just reload a save in those situations.
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Re: What are your thoughts on death in single player?

Post by Koub » Wed Feb 24, 2016 10:44 pm

Rethinking of the different options we have, I feel the best would be a "drop all your stuff when you die, and respawn naked somewhere in your base". And I'd upvote the concept of a chest containing all your stuff at the moment of your death, that could be opened only by you. Like that, you'd have an option to come back and get it, or simply get reequipped at your base, as you like.
However, I'd love the idea that you'd need some kind of cloning device, needing clonong tech, and so on.
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Re: What are your thoughts on death in single player?

Post by tetryon » Thu Feb 25, 2016 1:44 pm

Koub wrote:Rethinking of the different options we have, I feel the best would be a "drop all your stuff when you die, and respawn naked somewhere in your base". And I'd upvote the concept of a chest containing all your stuff at the moment of your death, that could be opened only by you. Like that, you'd have an option to come back and get it, or simply get reequipped at your base, as you like.
However, I'd love the idea that you'd need some kind of cloning device, needing clonong tech, and so on.
We play with the gravestone mod. You die, and your stuff insta-goes into a 'special' chest. Not necessarily all of it, since it can be smaller than your inventory (we play with bobsmods) so you may lose the excess. The chest can be immune to damage, or not. Others can open it. Once it is picked up, it disappears.

Since it appears in the spot you die, you have to retrieve it there. In our last map, there was a particularly nasty base we spent days trying to wipe out with low tech. One of our group had 3 chests full of stuff there from multiple deaths that he couldn't access until we wiped the base out.

My 2 cents: Death/respawning is not realistic in games, it never will be. It's a somewhat necessary game mechanic. It needs to be an inconvenience sufficient enough to make us want to avoid it while not being too severe as to make the game not fun. Losing a full inventory with bobathon is devastating, so gravestone is more acceptable. Losing a full inventory in vanilla is less devastating (depending on map settings), so no gravestone needed.

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