Version 0.17.3

[0111narwhalz]

I am thoroughly in favor of double-encoding, in logi chests, inserters, game elements in general, and elsewhere.
I'm deuteranomalous, which means I sometimes have difficulty distinguishing reds from greens, subtle red or green colors lose saturation, and I'm not entirely certain that purple isn't an elaborate fabrication. With this in mind, consider the filter and fast inserters, or the active provider and requester chests. Note that one is blue and the other is purple (I think). Most of the time I get by through memorization of their positions in the menus, but I often slip up and craft (useless to me) filter inserters and active provider chests when I want fast inserters and requester chests.
I'm not sure about the new colors—I haven't actually played 0.17 yet, and it's hard to tell when they're in isolation—but a serious thought about changing some other prominent visual detail, besides the hue, would be massively appreciated.

[bobingabout]

My game still isn't even telling me that updates are available. When is this going to be fixed?

This is actually a good reason why the game NEEDs a launcher... For people like me who don't play on steam, it would allow players to check for updates and do it without having to load the game to find IT ISN'T WORKING!!!

I am working on updating my mods to new version.
But I found the default GUI style have changed. Notably, the button has gone unnecessarily elongated, which makes my 0.16 code looks bad.
How could I adjust the button width?

Basically, you have to define a custom style in the data stage... though it is also possible to edit the button style on the fly in control. Take a look at button style (data/core/prototypes/styles.lua) in 0.16 and 0.17 and compare. Also look at the sprite button in 0.17 to copy over some of the graphic based stuff to make it the same colour as the sprite button.

[Schallfalke]

...

I am working on updating my mods to new version.
But I found the default GUI style have changed. Notably, the button has gone unnecessarily elongated, which makes my 0.16 code looks bad.
How could I adjust the button width?

Basically, you have to define a custom style in the data stage... though it is also possible to edit the button style on the fly in control. Take a look at button style (data/core/prototypes/styles.lua) in 0.16 and 0.17 and compare. Also look at the sprite button in 0.17 to copy over some of the graphic based stuff to make it the same colour as the sprite button.

Thanks for your information!
I was unaware of this file.

[bobingabout]

...

I am working on updating my mods to new version.
But I found the default GUI style have changed. Notably, the button has gone unnecessarily elongated, which makes my 0.16 code looks bad.
How could I adjust the button width?

Basically, you have to define a custom style in the data stage... though it is also possible to edit the button style on the fly in control. Take a look at button style (data/core/prototypes/styles.lua) in 0.16 and 0.17 and compare. Also look at the sprite button in 0.17 to copy over some of the graphic based stuff to make it the same colour as the sprite button.

Thanks for your information!
I was unaware of this file.

After doing a little research, I sent you a note with an easier fix in it.

[bman212121]

My game still isn't even telling me that updates are available. When is this going to be fixed?

This is actually a good reason why the game NEEDs a launcher... For people like me who don't play on steam, it would allow players to check for updates and do it without having to load the game to find IT ISN'T WORKING!!!

It's at the bottom of the post, but it probably should be at the top.

We're having problems with our automatic updater at the moment, so please use Steam, or download the full installation at http://www.factorio.com/download/experimental.

Clearly something major broke, and they haven't been able to fix it yet. Since we're on an alpha branch that is 3 days old, I think I'll give them a pass. It will be working once they have had time to figure it out.

I definitely disagree though this game needs a launcher. I personally think those things just add an additional step of complexity for no real gain. Once a version goes stable, then you have extra steps you need to do every single time you launch the game. Right now you're expecting updates to come fairly often, but we played for a solid 6 months on 16.51 without updates. The right way to do it is to simply add a switch to the executable that causes it to run in "check for updates" mode. We already have ways to create a new map and start a dedicated server, just adding another switch that causes the game to look for updates without launching is really what you're looking for.

Thinking about that more, what you want already exists. If you use the factorio-updater, that would do exactly what I mentioned. The updater can update stand alone Windows installations, and since those aren't headless it should update clients and servers. The biggest downside however is that it's not native and requires python to run the script. I do kind of wish this was just baked into the default installation.

https://github.com/narc0tiq/factorio-updater

[bobingabout]

My game still isn't even telling me that updates are available. When is this going to be fixed?

This is actually a good reason why the game NEEDs a launcher... For people like me who don't play on steam, it would allow players to check for updates and do it without having to load the game to find IT ISN'T WORKING!!!

It's at the bottom of the post, but it probably should be at the top.

Bottom of which post, where?

If you mean the one saying "it's broke, redownload the entire game for a minor update"... No. and that's me being polite. my actual response would be significantly longer with more curse words than non-curse words.

[aka13]

My game still isn't even telling me that updates are available. When is this going to be fixed?

This is actually a good reason why the game NEEDs a launcher... For people like me who don't play on steam, it would allow players to check for updates and do it without having to load the game to find IT ISN'T WORKING!!!

I am working on updating my mods to new version.
But I found the default GUI style have changed. Notably, the button has gone unnecessarily elongated, which makes my 0.16 code looks bad.
How could I adjust the button width?

Basically, you have to define a custom style in the data stage... though it is also possible to edit the button style on the fly in control. Take a look at button style (data/core/prototypes/styles.lua) in 0.16 and 0.17 and compare. Also look at the sprite button in 0.17 to copy over some of the graphic based stuff to make it the same colour as the sprite button.

For the love of god, lets refrain from launchers. I can't stand it that every game nowadays insinsts on having some bullshit launcher with news, advertisements, flashy pictures etc.

[MasterBuilder]

My game still isn't even telling me that updates are available. When is this going to be fixed?

This is actually a good reason why the game NEEDs a launcher... For people like me who don't play on steam, it would allow players to check for updates and do it without having to load the game to find IT ISN'T WORKING!!!

It's at the bottom of the post, but it probably should be at the top.

Bottom of which post, where?

If you mean the one saying "it's broke, redownload the entire game for a minor update"... No. and that's me being polite. my actual response would be significantly longer with more curse words than non-curse words.

Bottom of this one (0.17.3): viewtopic.php?f=3&t=65940#p403424
Top of this one (0.17.2): viewtopic.php?f=3&t=65580#p401973

Updater is broken ATM. Even if there was a launcher, it too would have the same problem if the update server is offline due to issues.

[bobingabout]

For the love of god, lets refrain from launchers. I can't stand it that every game nowadays insinsts on having some bullshit launcher with news, advertisements, flashy pictures etc.

oh god, I don't need anything with huge complex advertisements or news or anything like that, I hate those.
I'm just asking for an OPTIONAL (can launch the game without it as you do now) Launcher that has some basics in there.
Game updates
Mod updates
Change game and mod settings (Because it is currently possible to change the settings to a state where the game won't load, and your option is to delete the mod-settings file and start over)

Keep in mind that ALL of the above require a game restart, so if you're like me and are a mod developer, you can be constantly changing settings, having a launcher to change them for you would be useful.

EG, I load the game to turn on a specific setting to do tests, then want to revert the setting afterwards. Current method has me load the game, change setting, relaunch the game, perform my tests, forget to change the setting back when I quit, load the game again, change the setting, Load the game AGAIN because I changed the setting, then quit.
with a launcher it would be... load the launcher, change the setting, change the setting back and quit... or if I forget and realise after I quit, load the launcher, change the setting, then quit the launcher, reducing the number of game loads, which takes several minutes with all my mods installed, down to a single game load. Well, it used to, I installed 0.17 on my new SSD.

what if there is an update you need to load the game, perform an update, load the game again, update mods, load the game again, check mod settings, change some and load the game again... and that's if you're lucky. with a launcher you'd load the launcher, update game, update mods, check and update mod settings, launch the game.

I don't want to FORCE it on anyone, but I would like the OPTION to do all this shit without being forced to relaunch the game at every single step.

Updater is broken ATM. Even if there was a launcher, it too would have the same problem if the update server is offline due to issues.

...true...

[Anson]

Bottom of this one (0.17.3): ..., Top of this one (0.17.2): ...

every single detail of the changelog might not be important for everybody, and i also can read the changelog after starting the game. thus having such important "notice" at the top is important. when you move it to the bottom, it might suggest that it's the default state of the game now (just like "comment on the forums" at the end of every FFF).

what if there is an update you need to load the game, perform an update, load the game again, update mods, load the game again, check mod settings, change some and load the game again... and that's if you're lucky.

that currently happens to me: since very many mods are updated and some new ones are released too, there are lots of mods that can't be loaded when starting factorio (btw: even more annoying when authors seem to not even have started factorio once with the version they release because of obvious errors/bugs). thus i now start the program, get a message that a mod couldn't be loaded and can disable it, start again, get the next "can't load mod", disable it, etc, only to find later that an update for the mod is available that fixes the problem. then i have to find the mod again in the list and enable it, restart the program again, and then check all hotkey settings again since they are gone after disabling and reenabling mods (at least on 0.16 they were all gone, in contrast to the other mod settings which were still there; i don't know whether that applies to 0.17 too since i had to install it completely again and thus i lost even login data, vanilla settings, and vanilla hotkeys).

TL/DR: it would be really nice to be able updating factorio itself and also mods without the need to start the entire game which can't be started unless i disable several or all mods first. thus i would appreciate to have an updater (not launcher) that can be run instead of the normal game (only) in case of loading problems.

[bman212121]

Hi Bob,

I think you just need to get some rest. I can definitely understand that you're frustrated from having to work around some of the oddities of the game, but keep in mind that the updating part affects such a small percentage of people. It's not game breaking, and it's part of an update that has warnings plastered all over it telling you things will break. If you don't want to deal with workarounds, then you probably don't want to be on an unstable branch.

I do love your mods though, and I am grateful that you're trudging through the mud to provide us updates. We all appreciate all of the hard work you do. You don't have to deal with all of this nonsense but yet you are to try to bring us quality updates.




What it sounds like your describing to me is you really just want a developer tool for modding. That is one thing the game is lacking, which is a dedicated UI for modding which allows you to do what you describe more easily. The one unfortunate part about the way mods work now is the mod-settings.dat file. It used to never be an issue because before you'd just open up the old file in a text editor and make your changes. We really do need a way to customize that outside of the game. If you had the ability to do that, then you would have a much easier workflow.

What I would suggest to make your life easier is to start copying / pasting your two mod files. There's no reason why you shouldn't be able to set those how you want, and then just keeping running a command to copy the two of them back into the mods folder. I do things like that often to help speed up my process. So what you could do is this, make a batch file that copies the two files from "Settings A", and call it "Settings A.bat". Then make another batch file called "settings B" and call it "Settings B.bat". If you're pulling the two files from a folder outside of your install, they will never get stomped on. Make the batch files do a copy from your settings folders then run the factorio.exe. That will save you all of that nonsense of having to launch the game, mess with the checkboxes, and relaunch the game. You should literally be able to just double click "Settings A.bat" and the game loads with mod settings A. Exit the game, then run Mod Settings B and there you go, now you have your alt configuration. It will always be correct because you're always doing the copy right before you launch the game. You can even make a "Settings stock.bat" or something that has a completely vanilla version of those two files. When you double click that batch it sets the game to 100% vanilla and launches it that way.

Reading that back it still sounds a tad confusing. Let me clarify the one part. Launch said game, set settings how you want them. Exit game. Copy "mod-list.json" and "mod-settings.dat" into a new folder under something like "C:\Factorio-mods\SettingsA". Then launch the game again, set your settings how you want, then exit again. Copy those two files again but toss them into "C:\Factorio-mods\SettingsB". Then make your two batch files so that they copy from those folders into your mod folder, and then launch the game. Bonus points would be to setup a "choice" menu in a single batch so it gives you the ability to store several different configurations and it will change them at the start.

I can see where what I suggested isn't quite as handy for testing 1 offs, as you'll definitely have to startup the game, make the change, and that will still cause the restart. But it will still help you when you exit the game because you can always just use that trick to always load a default configuration of your mods. If you have another batch file sitting there called "Update bob's default.bat" you can just use that to copy whatever the current mod configuration is from your game data into your default folder. So if you decide you want to change the default, double click that batch and it copies whatever the current mod settings are into your default. Then when you double click your "bob's default.bat" it will copy whatever the most current version of your files are into your mods folder and launch the game. Doing something like that will take you a bit of time, but I think it will help you in the long run because you don't have to try to remember anything, just double click your batch and away you go.

[bobingabout]

thus i would appreciate to have an updater (not launcher) that can be run instead of the normal game (only) in case of loading problems.

The only real difference between a Launcher and an Updater, is that a launcher is an updater with a "Launch game" button on it.

[bman212121]

TL/DR: it would be really nice to be able updating factorio itself and also mods without the need to start the entire game which can't be started unless i disable several or all mods first. thus i would appreciate to have an updater (not launcher) that can be run instead of the normal game (only) in case of loading problems.

The issue with this is that having a UI really won't fix that problem. If you have busted mods, the launcher UI still isn't going to be smart enough to tell you that they are busted. The only difference you'll have is that you can start unchecking mods one by one until the game works versus adding mods one by one until the game breaks. Like you said as well sometimes new updates aren't tested all that well either, so having the mod updater just blindly updating all of your mods might cause it to fix some, and break others. So you'll be in a worse position than when you started because what is broken keeps changing on you.

[Anson]

thus i would appreciate to have an updater (not launcher) that can be run instead of the normal game (only) in case of loading problems.

The only real difference between a Launcher and an Updater, is that a launcher is an updater with a "Launch game" button on it.

yes :-)
but on many games, the game can ONLY be started through the launcher which i mostly don't want since those launchers easily become big programs by themselves, bloated with options, commercials, more options, etc. only a little detail but quite annoying on such a game: i like to have a few programs attached to my taskbar for easy start and to have the buttons on the taskbar sorted for easy switching (instead of ALT-TAB, and since my desktop is pure chaos like in reallife :-). on those games i would need to attach the launcher to start it and attach the game itself to have it at a specific position. similar problems also when i try attaching bat files or autohotkey programs to the W10 taskbar. that's why i made the distinction between bloated loaders and streamlined pure updaters that are only used in case of problems or for your quicker workflow.

[Anson]

@bman:
i wasn't thinking of doing all the mod organization in the updater, but only to be able to update the game itself and mods, and maybe to selectively disable mods, to get back to a state where i can start the real program again.
just happened: several mods on top of each other were using the same prototype. the error clearly was caused by a specific mod, but factorio only gave the option to disable either 10 related mods or even all mods, while i already had seen that the problematic mod probably had been updated. instead of disabling that specific mod and restarting factorio, or even updating mods directly, i now had to either access the modlist.json with an editor, download it directly from the mod portal (where mods often have different names than their zip files), or use an external modmanager. that's what i want to avoid ...
i don't know whether this was improved in 0.17, but in 0.16 all hotkeys (in contrast to the mod settings) were forgotten when i disabled and later reenabled mods. although "load save" has the option to "sync mods" to reenable the correct mods again, this behavior makes it much harder for users to simply say "disable all mods" and then restart factorio.

[bobingabout]

thus i would appreciate to have an updater (not launcher) that can be run instead of the normal game (only) in case of loading problems.

The only real difference between a Launcher and an Updater, is that a launcher is an updater with a "Launch game" button on it.

yes
but on many games, the game can ONLY be started through the launcher which i mostly don't want since those launchers easily become big programs by themselves, bloated with options, commercials, more options, etc. only a little detail but quite annoying on such a game: i like to have a few programs attached to my taskbar for easy start and to have the buttons on the taskbar sorted for easy switching (instead of ALT-TAB, and since my desktop is pure chaos like in reallife . on those games i would need to attach the launcher to start it and attach the game itself to have it at a specific position. similar problems also when i try attaching bat files or autohotkey programs to the W10 taskbar. that's why i made the distinction between bloated loaders and streamlined pure updaters that are only used in case of problems or for your quicker workflow.

Well, I don't think anyone is asking for a mandatory launcher. I'm not going to name any names, but I'm fairly sure there's devs who are pro "launcher", but most are against. and even those pro launcher aren't for forcing you to use it.

I guess a better way to describe it would be a game updater and mod configurer, which is more of a tool. And the main reason why it would be useful is that there's no way to edit the settings file right now unless you're a hex editing wizard, or through the game itself, which as I stated, can be hard if you manage to set something which prevents the game loading.

[myricaulus]

I used to use CFAN back then, when modding was not handled well from within the game, but its in a catatonic state sadly. I liked to update my mods before i start the game to avoid double starting the game. No Mod Options though, but you could start factorio from CFAN. Does this make it a factorio launcher?

[BlueTemplar]

it would allow players to check for updates and do it without having to load the game

Hmm, well, all the updates show up here, don't they ?
https://factorio.com/download/experimental
(Yeah, I know, this doesn't help with the other issues.)

TL/DR: it would be really nice to be able updating factorio itself and also mods without the need to start the entire game which can't be started unless i disable several or all mods first. thus i would appreciate to have an updater (not launcher) that can be run instead of the normal game (only) in case of loading problems.

Blame Microsoft, we wouldn't be in such a situation right now,
(and wouldn't "need" Steam)
if they had added a (third-party!) software updater in Windows, like, two decades ago...
(If I'm not mistaken the *nixes already had package managers for years at that point ?)

i don't know whether this was improved in 0.17, but in 0.16 all hotkeys (in contrast to the mod settings) were forgotten when i disabled and later reenabled mods. although "load save" has the option to "sync mods" to reenable the correct mods again, this behavior makes it much harder for users to simply say "disable all mods" and then restart factorio.

Wait, what ? I don't think that ever happened to me ?
(Related : is the "Use different mod settings per save" new to 0.17 ? )

[BATCH workflow suggestion]

Hmm, wouldn't just copying the whole Factorio folder be even easier ? (Might even put notes about its specific settings in the root...)
I know that this seems overkill, but SSD's are pretty fast, and with considerable space these days, and Factorio is not *that* big...

(thinking about replicating the way that "AppData" works in Windows, having a single folder of Factorio per game version, but multiple folders with user-configurable files, but *without even the need* to use any batch files... might Factorio command line support that already? And what is ModMyFactory (that already does something a bit like that) up to ?)

[myricaulus]

[...] unless you're a hex editing wizard [...]

I looked into the mod_config.dat and it looks pretty straight forward. Ten times easier than a Diablo 2 Char editor. Would a command line tool to change single settings at a time suffice or does it need to be a fancy smancy bold high tech super rich GUI application with installation wizzard and marquise text? I might have a little spare time next week for you @bobingabout.

[BlueTemplar]

I'm not colorblind, but "pastel colors" don't help to quickly see at a glance which chest has which function, maybe even less in a real factory with differing and/or no additional lights, at night, etc. the darker "strong colors" in 0.16 were very easy to recognize and tell apart. or is it simply that we are used too much to the old colors and have to get accustomed to the new ones? probably a bit of all of these effects ...

I agree on this and would also like to see more use of shape to distinguish chests.

Like a passive provider chest could have a circle, active provider a triangle point-up, requester a triangle point-down, buffer a diamond, storage a square.

I like the idea of shapes. you could change the boxes themselves or just have overlays with alt mode. like the arrows that show on refineries and such.

BTW. I love how active the community and the development is of this game not to mention how AWESOME a game it is. Thank you again for all your hard work!

You could put the shapes on the front of the chests or make the top doors different... I prefer the latter!

... If anything higher contrast colors would be wonderful

Yes, door shapes !

Icons

Can't help but bring up how much work has been done in Spring/Zero-K on easily recognisable (minimap / zoomable battlefield) icon shapes !
(Also units, at lower zoom levels, which can be pretty hard in a RTS game with 150+ distinct units...)
https://zero-k.info/mediawiki/index.php?title=Map_icons