Biters don't attack with large bases

Bugs that we were not able to reproduce, and/or are waiting for more detailed info.
factoriouzr
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Biters don't attack with large bases

Post by factoriouzr »

In 0.14.x biters stop attacking if you are in the centre of a big base. When you go really close to them, like on the same screen zoomed out, they start attacking from the base you are near. This makes the game extremely boring. There is no challenge anymore, even if i put the biters on the highest, riches highest everything, and the entire map is filled with them, they don't attack anymore except when you happen to walk near them. Even if they are in radar range with the live view, you can see the red dots are frozen.

Biters should always attack if the pollution touched them regardless of where the player is. For performance perhaps you can loop through all bases that exist, one every few seconds and if they are within pollution then tell them to make a force and attack the player or pollution sources. The rest of the biters can be frozen at this time while a force is attacking. Depending on various factors like pollution, though the wave strength and the number of simultaneous attacks should increase.

Also there is no point in the live radar view anymore with bigger bases, as all the biter dots are frozen and don't move till you come closer, so might as well just have a bunch of radars at the centre of your base so they can scan everything, but the live view is pretty useless.

Also it would be great to have more biter type variety and varied biter AI and different behaviour and types of attacks.

Loewchen
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Re: Biters don't attack with large bases

Post by Loewchen »

This is not a behaviour that I can confirm, please post a save with the issue.

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Re: Biters don't attack with large bases

Post by Rseding91 »

If pollution is touching the biters they're active and will attack. There's no mechanic that says "well if the player isn't near them just do nothing" when pollution is involved.
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factoriouzr
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Re: Biters don't attack with large bases

Post by factoriouzr »

Then why are none of the biters away from the player moving at all even though they are in the visible range of the radars?

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Re: Biters don't attack with large bases

Post by Rseding91 »

factoriouzr wrote:Then why are none of the biters away from the player moving at all even though they are in the visible range of the radars?
Visible range of radars is not "has pollution". Do the biters have pollution touching them?
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factoriouzr
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Re: Biters don't attack with large bases

Post by factoriouzr »

Yeah the biters do have pollution on them (light colour polution). And when I walk by biters with the same shade of pollution they start moving around their base and i see the red dots moving on my map.

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Re: Biters don't attack with large bases

Post by factoriouzr »

I thought there was an update a while ago preventing biter attacks for performance reasons if they were too far away. I think the issue was that a lot of biters got agro and lowered the performance (though I did not experience this).

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Re: Biters don't attack with large bases

Post by factoriouzr »

2930 pollution units and biters half a screen away and they don't attack at all.

Biters only move on big map and mini map when I'm about 1 - 2 screens away, as soon as I go a bit farter they stop moving on the big and mini map. Biters used to attack all time in previous versions. Now they are not even a threat at all even on max everything on map creation.

There is no challenge to the game anymore. Can you please fix. Also I remember versions ago when I had radars, it didn't matter how far away I was from biter bases, I could see them move on my big map (pacing in their base) where I had live view, now they just stop. They literally just freeze even when they are in visible range of radars if I'm farther from them. Again, this makes radars kind of useless but the biggest issue is that they don't cause any threat to the player's base. Little to no need for defense except where you usually hang out. I expect to be attacked from all sides when biters are covered by pollution on all sides of my base. Instead There are literally 0 attacks most of the time, except if I walk near a biter base.

factoriouzr
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Re: Biters don't attack with large bases

Post by factoriouzr »

Also just as a note, It does the same thing when I disabled all mods.

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Re: Biters don't attack with large bases

Post by Oxyd »

So post the save, please. Not much we can do without the save.

factoriouzr
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Re: Biters don't attack with large bases

Post by factoriouzr »

Oxyd wrote:So post the save, please. Not much we can do without the save.
Save attached. If you look at the map (m key) the biters to the right and a little up of the player are moving around yet there is a point right above those moving that no biters are moving at all. Note which base isn't moving. now move up a little and check the map. Keep moving up (you don't need to go far) and you will notice that the biters in that previously not moving base start moving on the map. Also look around my base, I have radar coverage everywhere and none of the biters are moving except those near the player.

I was able to duplicate this after I disabled all the mods, but if you think it matters, just download the same mods from your mod server.

Please release a hotfix for this today as I really want to play Factorio but with the biters being so passive it's no challenge and it doesn't give me any desire to play.

Also it would be great if you added an aggressive slider for biters at the very least to increase the frequency and wave strength quicker for biters. Ideally add more types of biters and better biter AI as you mentioned in a friday facts post that you wanted to do.
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Oxyd
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Re: Biters don't attack with large bases

Post by Oxyd »

factoriouzr wrote:
Oxyd wrote:So post the save, please. Not much we can do without the save.
Save attached. If you look at the map (m key) the biters to the right and a little up of the player are moving around yet there is a point right above those moving that no biters are moving at all. Note which base isn't moving. now move up a little and check the map. Keep moving up (you don't need to go far) and you will notice that the biters in that previously not moving base start moving on the map. Also look around my base, I have radar coverage everywhere and none of the biters are moving except those near the player.
I don't see any radar coverage anywhere. Which would explain your issue as well – the biters appear not to be moving because they're not covered by the radar – as you move closer, they're within your vision distance, so you can see them move.

factoriouzr
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Re: Biters don't attack with large bases

Post by factoriouzr »

Oxyd wrote:
factoriouzr wrote:
Oxyd wrote:So post the save, please. Not much we can do without the save.
Save attached. If you look at the map (m key) the biters to the right and a little up of the player are moving around yet there is a point right above those moving that no biters are moving at all. Note which base isn't moving. now move up a little and check the map. Keep moving up (you don't need to go far) and you will notice that the biters in that previously not moving base start moving on the map. Also look around my base, I have radar coverage everywhere and none of the biters are moving except those near the player.
I don't see any radar coverage anywhere. Which would explain your issue as well – the biters appear not to be moving because they're not covered by the radar – as you move closer, they're within your vision distance, so you can see them move.

what do you mean, I have radar coverage everywhere

factoriouzr
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Re: Biters don't attack with large bases

Post by factoriouzr »

I also don't get any attack notifications as all, no turrets engaged with the enemy, no destroyed turrets, no turrets damaged,nothing

factoriouzr
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Re: Biters don't attack with large bases

Post by factoriouzr »

Oxyd wrote:
factoriouzr wrote:
Oxyd wrote:So post the save, please. Not much we can do without the save.
Save attached. If you look at the map (m key) the biters to the right and a little up of the player are moving around yet there is a point right above those moving that no biters are moving at all. Note which base isn't moving. now move up a little and check the map. Keep moving up (you don't need to go far) and you will notice that the biters in that previously not moving base start moving on the map. Also look around my base, I have radar coverage everywhere and none of the biters are moving except those near the player.
I don't see any radar coverage anywhere. Which would explain your issue as well – the biters appear not to be moving because they're not covered by the radar – as you move closer, they're within your vision distance, so you can see them move.
There is literally a radar right above the player, my entire base borders are covered in radar vision, I placed radars every little while near all the border walls. That is so strange that you don't see the radar coverage. It still doesn't explain why I don't get attack notifications at all.

factoriouzr
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Re: Biters don't attack with large bases

Post by factoriouzr »

Oxyd wrote:
factoriouzr wrote:
Oxyd wrote:So post the save, please. Not much we can do without the save.
Save attached. If you look at the map (m key) the biters to the right and a little up of the player are moving around yet there is a point right above those moving that no biters are moving at all. Note which base isn't moving. now move up a little and check the map. Keep moving up (you don't need to go far) and you will notice that the biters in that previously not moving base start moving on the map. Also look around my base, I have radar coverage everywhere and none of the biters are moving except those near the player.
I don't see any radar coverage anywhere. Which would explain your issue as well – the biters appear not to be moving because they're not covered by the radar – as you move closer, they're within your vision distance, so you can see them move.
Ok I know what's going on, You need to download the upgraded electric mod, because I use pure solar panels and accumulators for power from that mod. Get this version Advanced-Electric_0.1.3.zip which should be latest.

Also my base is surrounded by 3 layers of walls (from bob's mods I think) not sure if that matters or not for the biter AI or pathing, but If you can't duplicate the issue with advanced electric mod, then please download bob's mods as well and any others if that doesn't work. The mods are listed in the save game when you go to load it.

factoriouzr
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Re: Biters don't attack with large bases

Post by factoriouzr »

Could the issue be related to not having any steam engines at all and using 100% green power? Are the biters only attacking power generation producing pollution? They used to attack all pollution producing sources. Just a thought.

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Re: Biters don't attack with large bases

Post by orzelek »

Please post your zipped mod folder - might make the issue much easier to reproduce.

factoriouzr
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Re: Biters don't attack with large bases

Post by factoriouzr »

mods attached
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factoriouzr
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Re: Biters don't attack with large bases

Post by factoriouzr »

Any update on resolving this issue?

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