screen.element.force_render_above() please?

Things that we aren't going to implement
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ownlyme
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screen.element.force_render_above() please?

Post by ownlyme »

i just wanted to update my https://mods.factorio.com/mod/market2 mod to the new gui layout but noticed that you just added some mechanic that forces clicked gui elements to get pulled up to be rendered above other elements.
this is quite annoying since my whole mod revolves around "hacking" the native gui and adding custom elements to it.
Hope you can fix this in any way.
mods.factorio.com/user/ownlyme
My requests: uiAbove||Grenade arc||Blueprint allies||Creeps forget command/ don't get removed||Player Modifiers||textbox::selection||Better Heat IF||Singleplayer RCON||tank bug w/ min_range >= projectile_creation_distance

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Re: screen.element.force_render_above() please?

Post by Therenas »

Duplicate of this, still very much needed.

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Re: screen.element.force_render_above() please?

Post by Rseding91 »

To put it simply: I knew any mods which did that would break when I changed the game mechanics and decided that I just didn't care.

What you were doing was never supported and never intended to stay working and the fact it broke when changing the logic for how base game does GUIs wasn't really an issue to me.
If you want to get ahold of me I'm almost always on Discord.

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Re: screen.element.force_render_above() please?

Post by ownlyme »

Rseding91 wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 4:20 pm
To put it simply: I knew any mods which did that would break when I changed the game mechanics and decided that I just didn't care.

What you were doing was never supported and never intended to stay working and the fact it broke when changing the logic for how base game does GUIs wasn't really an issue to me.
i thought you guys cared about modding...
mods.factorio.com/user/ownlyme
My requests: uiAbove||Grenade arc||Blueprint allies||Creeps forget command/ don't get removed||Player Modifiers||textbox::selection||Better Heat IF||Singleplayer RCON||tank bug w/ min_range >= projectile_creation_distance

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Re: screen.element.force_render_above() please?

Post by Decafeiner »

Rseding91 wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 4:20 pm
To put it simply: I knew any mods which did that would break when I changed the game mechanics and decided that I just didn't care.

What you were doing was never supported and never intended to stay working and the fact it broke when changing the logic for how base game does GUIs wasn't really an issue to me.
I don't really recall when I started playing Factorio, but man it has been some years... I don't mod myself, no time to learn how it goes. But modding definitely adds to the game. Factorio is pretty straight forward: build your rocket, game finished. You can of course tweak the difficulties and all to make it last longer...

Mods do add a whole new side to the game, a brand new experience to people, basically free of charges for the developers, generating more attraction to the game for new player. Seeing how you, a staff member of factorio, probably a Dev even, reacts now, hints on where the game is going to.

There are ways to put things in words, I get the point where the game evolves and sure some things will change, but saying bluntly "I don't care about all the work and love you put into the game, I knew I'd break it and I enjoyed doing it" is nowhere near how it should have been said.


Seeing how mods bring a different approach to the game, I believe you should be working with modders, instead of making yourself look like working against them. Mods allow people to change the game slightly or heavily to better fit their expectations of it. Kill the mods, you'll kill a good portion of the community.
Just my 2 cents.

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Re: screen.element.force_render_above() please?

Post by Raiguard »

Rseding91 wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 4:20 pm
To put it simply: I knew any mods which did that would break when I changed the game mechanics and decided that I just didn't care.

What you were doing was never supported and never intended to stay working and the fact it broke when changing the logic for how base game does GUIs wasn't really an issue to me.
I do agree that what ownlyme is doing shouldn't be encouraged, but there are other reasons for wanting a bring_to_front() function. Therenas' usecase is perfectly valid.
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Re: screen.element.force_render_above() please?

Post by Rseding91 »

ownlyme wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 7:40 am
i thought you guys cared about modding...
You need to back up and take in the bigger picture here.

* You're in a section of the forums dedicated to modding. A section where we frequently talk with players and implement requests for new and improved modding.
* In a game where we have a dedicated website and server to host and distribute these mods to the players.
* In a game where there's an entire section of the main menu dedicated to mods
* In a game where there's support for mods in single player and multiplayer
* In a game where modded bug reports get treated with the same urgency as base game bug reports
* In a game where more than 11% of the code exists purely for modding support
* In a game where every change considers the implications it will have for mods
If you want to get ahold of me I'm almost always on Discord.

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Re: screen.element.force_render_above() please?

Post by ownlyme »

and youre talking to a modder who spent over 2000 hours of his life on YOUR game and you just tell him "fuck you we dont care about you"
sorry for getting so mad but i'm tired of reading "not sorry we won't fix this because your mod is going too far"
just because you dont like it doesnt mean others don't find it cool.
Last edited by ownlyme on Fri Jun 05, 2020 2:54 am, edited 2 times in total.
mods.factorio.com/user/ownlyme
My requests: uiAbove||Grenade arc||Blueprint allies||Creeps forget command/ don't get removed||Player Modifiers||textbox::selection||Better Heat IF||Singleplayer RCON||tank bug w/ min_range >= projectile_creation_distance

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Re: screen.element.force_render_above() please?

Post by Therenas »

ownlyme wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 7:57 pm
and youre talking to a modder who spent over 2000 hours of his life on YOUR game and you just tell him "fuck you we dont care about you"
Come on, don't be silly. They obviously care a ton about modders, more than any other game devs I'm aware of. It's been one of their priorities/goals since the very beginning. They are very accomodating to user requests, I mean what company spends many of their dev's hours for stuff modders want, just because they asked?

That being said, sometimes something gets dismissed out of hand that shouldn't be. That'll happen with anything, you can't be perfect all the time. That's why I'm asking Rseding to reconsider for this specific request, as I think it can do more good than bad, and is very much worth supporting imo. Of course I'd say that, but still. I can detail some more reasons why I think it's important if someone wants to hear them. Either way, if this doesn't get added, it's fine, the world goes on, it's just a little bit worse I guess.

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Re: screen.element.force_render_above() please?

Post by Arcani_Victus »

I personally appreciate what Wube have done with Factorio and working with the modding community to make one great game. I believe Wube to be one of the best developers currently making games because of their transparency and willingness to support the players and mod makers alike.

However, I'm not sure your approach to this particular situation is the best way. Stating that you simply don't care the change you plan to implament will affect certain mod makers and their mods tarnishes that image a bit. Not so long ago in Friday facts #345 Klonan talked about a bug report involving the mod Hovercraft. Which he mentions usually one would just say, "Hey it's a mod problem, here's a quarter, call someone who cares." However, he took the time to come up with another solution that both resolved the problem and improved the over game for the greater good. One of my favorite things about Wube and it's developers in action.

Now I've never made a mod that required a GUI...that's way above my mod making knowledge level, nor have I ever coded a game. However, surely there is a better way to handle this then just saying, "decided that I just didn't care." I'm certain we all understand and equally appreciate the work put into by the developers to support the mod making community of Factorio. It is probably second to none as far as the games I have ever played, but I'm also not sure I've ever seen a developer talk up the support they have put forth while in the same breath say, "Your mod breaking wasn't really an issue to me."

Either way, thank you and everyone else at Wube for the 11% game code purely for modding support, looking into bug reports even when involving modded game play, hosting a server and forums for mods to be uploaded and discussed, and all the other considerations taken when updating the game and it's effect it will have on mods. Factorio is an amazing game and I look forward to playing it for years to come.

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Re: screen.element.force_render_above() please?

Post by ownlyme »

no idea why this guy is so stubborn, we modders have asked for a method to enhance vanilla guis for a long time, what he did now is basically rendering gui.screen useless..

btw i spent over 100 hours on my market mod, and you're really telling me it's not worth 2 hours of your time to fix this?

btw2: in case you might actually fix this, remember the gui root is not necessarily a frame (because that one has no transparency)
mods.factorio.com/user/ownlyme
My requests: uiAbove||Grenade arc||Blueprint allies||Creeps forget command/ don't get removed||Player Modifiers||textbox::selection||Better Heat IF||Singleplayer RCON||tank bug w/ min_range >= projectile_creation_distance

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Re: screen.element.force_render_above() please?

Post by Rseding91 »

ownlyme wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 3:36 pm
... what he did now is basically rendering gui.screen useless..
gui.screen was never and is never intended to draw over, between, behind, or have any interaction with standard game GUIs. I made that clear back in August of 2019 shortly after it was added to the game 74342

Your use-case was never supported.
If you want to get ahold of me I'm almost always on Discord.

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Re: screen.element.force_render_above() please?

Post by ownlyme »

Rseding91 wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 4:24 pm
Your use-case was never supported.
LOL....
Modding is about bending the limits of what's possible.
Look at a few mods, they are all doing things that were never intended.
https://mods.factorio.com/mod/RealisticReactors
https://mods.factorio.com/mod/windturbines
https://mods.factorio.com/mod/dieselTrains
https://mods.factorio.com/mod/Flammable_Oils_fix
https://mods.factorio.com/mod/laser_fix (i mean what it originally did... you're welcome..)
https://mods.factorio.com/mod/Hovercrafts

wanna break those too?

can i please talk to a dev who's not so narrow-minded?
mods.factorio.com/user/ownlyme
My requests: uiAbove||Grenade arc||Blueprint allies||Creeps forget command/ don't get removed||Player Modifiers||textbox::selection||Better Heat IF||Singleplayer RCON||tank bug w/ min_range >= projectile_creation_distance

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Re: screen.element.force_render_above() please?

Post by Rseding91 »

ownlyme wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 7:42 pm
Rseding91 wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 4:24 pm
Your use-case was never supported.
LOL....
Modding is about bending the limits of what's possible.
Look at a few mods, they are all doing things that were never intended.
https://mods.factorio.com/mod/RealisticReactors
https://mods.factorio.com/mod/windturbines
https://mods.factorio.com/mod/dieselTrains
https://mods.factorio.com/mod/Flammable_Oils_fix
https://mods.factorio.com/mod/laser_fix (i mean what it originally did... you're welcome..)
https://mods.factorio.com/mod/Hovercrafts

wanna break those too?

can i please talk to a dev who's not so narrow-minded?
As far as I can see all of those mods are using the game-provided mod APIs as they where designed and so are supported.
If you want to get ahold of me I'm almost always on Discord.

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Re: screen.element.force_render_above() please?

Post by Helfima »

Hello
a good example is my mod which is only an interface: https://mods.factorio.com/mods/Helfima/helmod
for my windows now I destroy them on reopening because otherwise they always go in the background
in my case it was 1 or 2 lines to modify

after if you add an option I will be happy if not too bad

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Re: screen.element.force_render_above() please?

Post by Therenas »

Helfima wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 6:01 pm
Hello
a good example is my mod which is only an interface: https://mods.factorio.com/mods/Helfima/helmod
for my windows now I destroy them on reopening because otherwise they always go in the background
in my case it was 1 or 2 lines to modify

after if you add an option I will be happy if not too bad
Yeah this is also my use-case, it's more for the performance improvement of not having to recreate complex GUI's all the time.

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Re: screen.element.force_render_above() please?

Post by ownlyme »

Rseding91 wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 9:35 pm
ownlyme wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 7:42 pm
Rseding91 wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 4:24 pm
Your use-case was never supported.
LOL....
Modding is about bending the limits of what's possible.
Look at a few mods, they are all doing things that were never intended.
https://mods.factorio.com/mod/RealisticReactors
https://mods.factorio.com/mod/windturbines
https://mods.factorio.com/mod/dieselTrains
https://mods.factorio.com/mod/Flammable_Oils_fix
https://mods.factorio.com/mod/laser_fix (i mean what it originally did... you're welcome..)
https://mods.factorio.com/mod/Hovercrafts

wanna break those too?

can i please talk to a dev who's not so narrow-minded?
As far as I can see all of those mods are using the game-provided mod APIs as they where designed and so are supported.
okay then i'm out...
i won't tell my community that it's your fault that i quit factorio, but honestly it is your fault.
no idea how such a narrow-minded person got a job at wube..
mods.factorio.com/user/ownlyme
My requests: uiAbove||Grenade arc||Blueprint allies||Creeps forget command/ don't get removed||Player Modifiers||textbox::selection||Better Heat IF||Singleplayer RCON||tank bug w/ min_range >= projectile_creation_distance

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Re: screen.element.force_render_above() please?

Post by JamesFire »

ownlyme wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 7:50 pm
Rseding91 wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 9:35 pm
ownlyme wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 7:42 pm
Rseding91 wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 4:24 pm
Your use-case was never supported.
LOL....
Modding is about bending the limits of what's possible.
Look at a few mods, they are all doing things that were never intended.
https://mods.factorio.com/mod/RealisticReactors
https://mods.factorio.com/mod/windturbines
https://mods.factorio.com/mod/dieselTrains
https://mods.factorio.com/mod/Flammable_Oils_fix
https://mods.factorio.com/mod/laser_fix (i mean what it originally did... you're welcome..)
https://mods.factorio.com/mod/Hovercrafts

wanna break those too?

can i please talk to a dev who's not so narrow-minded?
As far as I can see all of those mods are using the game-provided mod APIs as they where designed and so are supported.
okay then i'm out...
i won't tell my community that it's your fault that i quit factorio, but honestly it is your fault.
no idea how such a narrow-minded person got a job at wube..
I'm gonna be honest here.

All I see is an immature child throwing a tantrum over not getting their way. Especially with how you deprecated all your mods, when there's nothing wrong with them.

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Re: screen.element.force_render_above() please?

Post by ownlyme »

the market was my favorite mod where i put the most time in.
why would i support a game where the devs give 0 fucks?
it's not even just that they made this particular mod unusable (and another one from me that used the same system), there were so many things you would have been able to do by placing ui elements above game windows, for example enhancing functionality of normal crafting machines/nuclear reactors or custom equipment that shows its stats in the armor inventory.
thus if i ever want to play this again it will be around version 0.18.25 or so
i'm kinda glad he acted this way because now i can finally draw a line under my factorio modding career and concentrate on something new
if people liked my mods they will release updated versions, but i've already spent way too much time on this and don't really wanna work on a game i don't even play anymore
mods.factorio.com/user/ownlyme
My requests: uiAbove||Grenade arc||Blueprint allies||Creeps forget command/ don't get removed||Player Modifiers||textbox::selection||Better Heat IF||Singleplayer RCON||tank bug w/ min_range >= projectile_creation_distance

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Re: screen.element.force_render_above() please?

Post by JamesFire »

ownlyme wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 5:32 pm
the market was my favorite mod where i put the most time in.
why would i support a game where the devs give 0 fucks?
it's not even just that they made this particular mod unusable (and another one from me that used the same system), there were so many things you would have been able to do by placing ui elements above game windows, for example enhancing functionality of normal crafting machines/nuclear reactors or custom equipment that shows its stats in the armor inventory.
thus if i ever want to play this again it will be around version 0.18.25 or so
i'm kinda glad he acted this way because now i can finally draw a line under my factorio modding career and concentrate on something new
if people liked my mods they will release updated versions, but i've already spent way too much time on this and don't really wanna work on a game i don't even play anymore
Immature. Child. He already explained why it's not being implemented. This wasn't some spur of the moment decision. This was decided nearly a year ago. It's not that he gives 0 fucks, it's that you're making demands, and refusing to listen when he says no, and refusing to listen to his explanation in favour of "But this would be cool!".

And you still deprecated your mods for no reason. "Someone else will fix it" isn't a valid excuse to deprecate something that has nothing wrong with it. As far as I'm concerned, you're the worse person here.

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