Climate Change

Things that are not directly connected with Factorio.
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Sniper_of_Chess
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Climate Change

Post by Sniper_of_Chess » Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:15 pm

Hello everybody in these hot days (In Europe at least).
30 (or so) years ago, there was conference about climate change, where specialists of this topic has warned people with responsibility that there is probability, that clima starts to change and if nobody does something, it would be worse and worse.. Well.. We all know what most politicans do.. (nothing but talk)
I was always interested in this topic, because well, its our future. Last year's hot waves in summer made me start to think about climate change in a serious way. This year seems to be worse than last and I am asking myself :" Where will we be in 5 years?" and the imagination scares me.. I start to see from news that some neighbours in small villages fights over water well and when I see dry grass when I go home from work, I am kinda afraid where and how this "ends".
So my question is.
What is your opinion in this topic? and WHY do you have this opinion?

Koub
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Re: Climate Change

Post by Koub » Thu Jul 25, 2019 10:18 pm

So this is the moderator-me writing. The subject is troll and flamewar friendly, besides being totally off-topic, even for off-topic subforum.
If I feel the slightest hint that my fears about trolling and flaming were justified, I'll lock it. Until then, I'll let people express themselves on the subject.


Now the me-me : Climate change - which was still called global warming at the time - does not necessarily mean that every temperature spike is directly the illustration that the thing is happening.
So far, I don't think the current hot temperatures we have in Europe have been proven to be a direct consequence or illustration of the climate change - despite the climate change in itself has reached a consensus in the scientific community. There might even be places in the world where the weather gets colder. That's about all for me, I know I didn't answer OP's question, but I felt it had to be precised
Koub - Please consider English is not my native language.

slippycheeze
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Re: Climate Change

Post by slippycheeze » Fri Jul 26, 2019 8:12 pm

Koub wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 10:18 pm
So far, I don't think the current hot temperatures we have in Europe have been proven to be a direct consequence or illustration of the climate change - despite the climate change in itself has reached a consensus in the scientific community.
The whole thing has been decades of the problem that when science uses a word, and when everyone else uses a word, they don't always mean the same thing. Both terms are true, but you are absolutely correct that neither of them can be directly related to any real world weather event in .... I don't quite know how to put it, but let me try...

In a way that has any meaning on a small scale, just as if you survey 100,000 people in a city you get a good basis to predict how people think about something on average. For any individual person, though, that information is useless for predicting what they think. Except about football clubs, of course. ;)


The whole process is just pouring more energy into a set of complicated systems. Now they have more power, as Factorio shows us, they can do more. Not more of a specific thing, just more of whatever. Which is why hotter, colder, wetter, drier, faster, slower, and just plain stranger weather are all possible outcomes. Those are the end products, not the "machine" that makes them.

Strictly accurately, even, weather on the scale of ten years is an intermediate product. The end product is really, really slow to take shape. Which definitely doesn't help understand it all, either, since what I thought 2020 would be like back in the '90s is ... not exactly accurate, it turns out. Bad at seeing what 30 years from now is going to be like.

mmmPI
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Re: Climate Change

Post by mmmPI » Fri Jul 26, 2019 10:46 pm

Sniper_of_Chess wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:15 pm
if nobody does something, it would be worse and worse..
That's the opposite i think, if it is worse, it is accordingly because people ARE doing things, doing nothing, like as a collective decision of everyone stop doing anything and just wait for it to stop would work AFAIK. But feel free to prove me wrong.

In another direction :

I am already contributing my share, i do not heat my flat even during winter, it is ok since the other neighboors heat a lot. What do YOU do to make the world a better place ?

Hopefully this is not considered as trolling because i will explain :), it is not to be taken literaly, the first part i want to point out that the rethorical way to present the question could be considered falacious, since it implies a feeling of emergency with linguistic expression that include the innocent readers that now HAS to do something; else it is guilty, ( at least of not being the person that is needed to change the things, rather than just expecting oneself to change its own behavior you expect a savior that won't be politicians but someone else sure need to tell you how to live your life).

This way of expressing a problem is not intellectually honnest if your aim is to argue with reason and not feelings. this is my opinion.
Sniper_of_Chess wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:15 pm
What is your opinion in this topic? and WHY do you have this opinion?
This is why i pointed out a second direction, after stating that things are going to be worse unless someone do something, it is weird to ask people their opinion do you mean to ask them if they agree with what you just stated in a tone that doesn't seems like someone is allowed to disagree since those are facts ?

Or more something like, "once we've said that where are we going" ? then you get the "other direction",

i hope when you read the "other direction" you wanted to explain me why it is wrong when i say i am contributing my share, this is not making the world a better place right ? my attitude is just benefiting from others people's heat right ? yet it doesn't not prevent me from asking you "what do YOU do ?", that leaves a weird confuse feeling a little displeasant right ? Like i'm about to tell you how to do stuff, or at least to tell you not to do stuff.

That is kind of what i felt reading your post.

It would a bit the same if you describe how bad it is to get drunk and take random fights in the streets, and then ask people their opinion about it, and also why ? But maybe someone is going to argue that it makes you respected and it boost your confidence.
“In any field, the Establishment is seldom in pursuit of the truth, because it is composed of those who sincerely believe that they are already in possession of it.”
— Edwin Thompson Jaynes

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disentius
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Re: Climate Change

Post by disentius » Sat Jul 27, 2019 12:26 pm

Look here:
https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/
A less disputed hockey stick graph.

My logic bias tells me to assume that human population growth has a specific influence on climate, environment, and other life. (e.g. it would be different if we weren't here in these numbers.)
All life is competing for resources, and humans are very good at finding and using them first.
The population growth rate is declining however. How we can keep sustaining this many people, and what the effects are on the other life on our planet, will be hot topics in the coming decades.
For the foreseeable future, it will be like Factorio: biters fish, and trees decrease in population as the factory grows.
  • the evolution algorithm for biters doesn't have a max_sustainable_density_per_chunk limit. overpopulation with only one drain?(the player) urg!:)
  • It acts like the biome in the novel Deathworld(Harry Harrison).


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