[14.19] Biters not attacking

[dustbust]

I've tested this four times and it "replicates" every new game. I've disabled all of my mods as well to confirm. The biters are sending an initial attack (usually just one) when pollution first gets to them, after that, the nest does nothing. I'm attaching my save game to show you, I'm putting a descent amount of pollution right near a nest without dumping a ton of hours into this test game.

After going through some 2014 posts I found a "kill all biters" command that fixed an old bug. I sent this command (the save file is before this command was issued) and what I noticed was the nest closest to my pollution started multiplying and then started sending units to a single location (prepping for an attack) I did not keep playing to see if the nest would properly keep this cycle up though. Also, I do not want to do this to my main game because it says all achievements are locked if issued.

[dustbust]

Starting conditions are all default except starting area is small or extra small. Confirmed peaceful mode is off.

[Loewchen]

What version?
How long does the nest not send attacks?
What do you mean with pollution "near" the spawner, is the pollution absorbed by the spawner or not?

[dustbust]

1. Version 0.14.19

2. Initial attack when pollution hits them, no further attacks...

3. Spawner is absorbing pollution continuously, ensuring that it is being nearly surrounded.

I'd upload my much bigger factory that is more than engulfing spawners but it has mods, so I just started my 4th game (attached, no mods) and hand plenty of those starter drills going to create a lot of pollution.

I've found a new player on steam with no mods as well that is experiencing this also.

[Loewchen]

In the save you uploaded, the enemy is attacking regularly. Ill file this as not a bug until someone can provide a savefile that actually shows an issue.

[mtilsted]

I just loaded the attached game, and let it run for 25 minutes using the standard version 0.14 from Steam.

There is a copper production, which is feed from a chest with coal. Close to this there is a biter base. This biter base send exactly 1 biter towards my base. And the biter base to the north did send 1 or 2 biters towards my base. That is all the attacks which happend for me just from running this save for 25 minutes.

Is this the expected number of attacks??

[Oxyd]

I loaded up the save, and the copper mine got attacked by a group of 10 biters within a few minutes.

You do have very little pollution, though, and the biters are on the very edge of your pollution cloud – you shouldn't expect too much enemy activity at this stage of the game. When testing your save, I refilled your copper miners with coal so that they continue running and polluting.

So I concur with not a bug.

[mtilsted]

No, then there REALLY is a bug. Because that newer happens for me.

I have just run the map for something like 30 minutes. And killed less then 10 bugs in TOTAL. And that is the initial wave from new bases getting hit by polution for the first time. The base close to the copper newer sends 10 biters when I play.

[Oxyd]

There is a certain element of randomness to biters attacks, so it's entirely possible and correct that the attacks will come from further bases for a while. And 10 bugs in 30 minutes with so little pollution sounds about right to me.

[Deadly-Bagel]

Yeah biter aggression in 0.13 was toned WAY back for the early game. It generally takes them like 1-2 hours to attack my factory at all on default settings. I think it's designed to give you a more peaceful early game while you get set up and hammer you later with constant attacks and restricting your expansion.

[mtilsted]

But it was less then 10 bugs. And as far as I Could see, none of them came from the base close to the copper mine.

Also: Let me tell you about the first game I played.

All default settings: I managed to build a base big enough, to research the default rocket tech. (Newer build it, but still).
Total number of bugs which attacked my base in that game, was less then 50. That should not be possible.

[Oxyd]

Not biter aggression per se, but the tree pollution absorbtion was doubled, which means that pollution doesn't travel as far as it used to.

[mtilsted]

Is the game supposed to be that random, once the seed is set? If I do nothing which changes the pollution the timing/amount of biters attacking should not change for the same loaded game, should it?

Also: You both loaded the game, and got attacked by many biters. That newer happens to me. (I have newer seen as many as 10 biters attack my base ever, while playing this game.

But I will try to set up a true 50MW factory later today, just to see if that causes them to attack.

[Oxyd]

But it was less then 10 bugs. And as far as I Could see, none of them came from the base close to the copper mine.

Again, no reason for them to come from that one particular base.

Also: Let me tell you about the first game I played.

All default settings: I managed to build a base big enough, to research the default rocket tech. (Newer build it, but still).
Total number of bugs which attacked my base in that game, was less then 50. That should not be possible.

That depends on the generated map (if there's plenty of water around your factory, not all biters will be able to reach you) and your playstyle (if you pollute little, you'll see few attacks).

In any way, this sounds like a balancing discussion, not a bug discussion.

[Oxyd]

Is the game supposed to be that random, once the seed is set? If I do nothing which changes the pollution the timing/amount of biters attacking should not change for the same loaded game, should it?

There's quite a lot of randomness, especially in the AI, yes. Just moving your character around can result in a butterfly effect that will change what hapens dramatically. And by “change dramatically” I mean whether an attack will or will not happen and if it does happen, from what position and with how many members, and stuff like that.

Also: You both loaded the game, and got attacked by many biters. That newer happens to me. (I have newer seen as many as 10 biters attack my base ever, while playing this game.

But I will try to set up a true 50MW factory later today, just to see if that causes them to attack.

Well, if there is a bug, then I need to be able to reproduce it, otherwise there's pretty much nothing for me to do.

But I'm fairly certain that if you just continue playing and building your factory, the attacks will pick up accordingly.

[mtilsted]

I think I found the problem, or at least part of the problem.

Do we agree that the base should be spawning biters which run away from the base and form a new group, which will then later attack? (Let's call them runners).

The base next to the copper don't spawn any runners at all. Which is why it's not attacking me. Not a single runner. Ever. (And I am pretty sure none of the other bases spawn runners either. But they are not within visible range).

But if I walk close to the base, all the biters obviously will attack me. After I kill the biters in the base and leave the base area, the base start spawning new biters. And then it start creating runners, which run away from the base, and later attack me. (Hello 120 biters attacking my base).

So the bug is that: As long as I don't visit biter bases, and kill some biters they will not spawn runners, and thus newer attack me.

[mtilsted]

Well, if there is a bug, then I need to be able to reproduce it, otherwise there's pretty much nothing for me to do.

But I'm fairly certain that if you just continue playing and building your factory, the attacks will pick up accordingly.

I am pretty sure I found the bug, see the message, just above this one.(The issue is no runners spawning). Do you need more then that?

[mtilsted]

One other odd thing is that: The base close to the copper production contains 2 spitter spawners and 2 biter spawners. But the spitter spawners are spawning biters, not spitters.

Martin

[mtilsted]

In case it helps: I have created a new game, with a 20MV steam power, close to 4 biter bases. But it still don't look like it has any effect.

There are only small biters(No spitters), and none of the 4 bases ever sent out runners to start an attack wave despite all the bases absorbing pollution..

And again: if I run towards the bases and then run back to my turrets once the biters follows me, my turrets kill the bitters and then the bases start spawning new bitters, and some of those start joining an attack wave. And once this has started, the bases i have visited keep sending attack waves. I saw 3 full waves, but still only small bitters. No spitters at all.

I am using the normal version 0.14.19 from steam with no mods.

[mtilsted]

Also: I know this sounds insane, but is it possible that the issue is caused by the difficulty I played the campain on?

When I first got Factorio I played the campaign on easy, and finished as far as the "Build the track to the iron base" level, and then I started the "Build a rocket" game, and then biters newer formed attack waves.

But now I replayed and completed the first campaign level(Where I have to build the car) on medium instead of easy. And after completing that map, I loaded my "BitersNotAttacking" save game. And as soon as I loaded that game, some of the bases started forming attack waves. Something I have newer seen before. So is it possible the game somehow inherits the difficulty level from the last played campaign?