[0.13.x]Missing in-game description for "Item Request Proxy"

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Dev-iL
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[0.13.x]Missing in-game description for "Item Request Proxy"

Post by Dev-iL » Thu Jul 07, 2016 2:09 pm

Thanks to the explanation of Kuba, I've managed to create this elusive entity (see attached save).
I have several issues with it:
  • In my opinion, the name is quite un-informative, which also causes problems for translators. A better name could be "Requested item placeholder" or something along those lines.
  • There's absolutely no ingame indication of:
    • What causes it?
    • How to get rid of it?
    • Why does it mysteriously go away when "mined"?
  • What differentiates this entity from the "missing components" warning sign (which is how it appears on the map btw).
The reason I call this a placeholder, is because if a new blueprint is created from an object having an "item request proxy", the blueprint considers the source item as having modules.
Attachments
i_req_proxy.zip
Item request proxy save - see blue triangle
(2.48 MiB) Downloaded 40 times
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Rseding91
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Re: [0.13.x]Missing in-game description for "Item Request Proxy"

Post by Rseding91 » Thu Jul 07, 2016 2:33 pm

The name doesn't need to convey how you get the entity to appear. "inserter" doesn't convey "built by holding an item in your cursor and clicking it in game" You get rid of it like you do Every. Other. Entity. You mine it or deconstruct it. It goes away when mined because that's how all entities work.

It's staying as it is.
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Re: [0.13.x]Missing in-game description for "Item Request Proxy"

Post by Klonan » Thu Jul 07, 2016 2:33 pm

The proxy request is generated to deliver modules to blueprinted entities which contain modules



To get rid of them you just right click them, or use a deconstruction planner

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Re: [0.13.x]Missing in-game description for "Item Request Proxy"

Post by Dev-iL » Thu Jul 07, 2016 2:52 pm

Rseding91 wrote:The name doesn't need to convey how you get the entity to appear. "inserter" doesn't convey "built by holding an item in your cursor and clicking it in game" You get rid of it like you do Every. Other. Entity. You mine it or deconstruct it. It goes away when mined because that's how all entities work.
1) I didn't say that the name has to reflect how it appears but what it does => your first argument is completely invalid.
2) Since it is an entity, it should have a description, no? Is there ANY resource (tutorial, wiki article, etc.) that explains to a player what this symbol means?
3) Why does it appear as something else on the map?
Klonan wrote:The proxy request is generated to deliver modules to blueprinted entities which contain modules
Yes, I know this now and how to reproduce it, but this is only after I happened to come across this in the forum / Crowdin. I'm not talking about myself here, but about people seeing it for the the first time w/o having any idea what it is.

To summarize:
Image
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Re: [0.13.x]Missing in-game description for "Item Request Proxy"

Post by Klonan » Thu Jul 07, 2016 3:16 pm

I don't see what the issue is?

You are saying the name isn't fitting for what it does?

Can you offer any better name?

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Re: [0.13.x]Missing in-game description for "Item Request Proxy"

Post by Dev-iL » Thu Jul 07, 2016 3:27 pm

Klonan wrote:I don't see what the issue is?
You are saying the name isn't fitting for what it does?
Can you offer any better name?
Let me try this again: there are two problems, the first (and less important) one is the name (my alternative suggestions are: "Requested item placeholder" or "Item request flag"). The bigger issue is that I have no idea what it's trying to tell me - here my suggestion is writing some friendlier version of Cube's post as a description string:
cube wrote:
  • ... modules are missing.
  • blue warning icon ... can be used to cancel the module request.
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Re: [0.13.x]Missing in-game description for "Item Request Proxy"

Post by Dev-iL » Mon Jul 11, 2016 12:08 pm

@Rseding91 @Klonan
Ignoring this problem won't make it go away. It is a FACT that you have an entity in the game with no description (this was the title of the post all along). Can you argue with that?
If you don't want to fix this because of low priority or w/e, so be it, but put it in the "wontfix" or "feature requests" forums. Saying that this is "not a bug" is unacceptable and frankly somewhat rude.
P.S.
Perhaps our definitions of "what a bug is" are different. If a "bug" is strictly something wrong with the logic of the game, then sure - this isn't a bug (unless the description actually exists and is simply not linked for this object, which would then mean it is a bug). However, I also consider as a "bug" something that diminishes from the UX, such as things that fit the description of "should be in the game but inexplicably isn't" (like missing description for just some entities). If you don't want this type of issues raised/reported - just say so.
Last edited by Dev-iL on Mon Jul 11, 2016 12:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [0.13.x]Missing in-game description for "Item Request Proxy"

Post by Rseding91 » Mon Jul 11, 2016 12:20 pm

Dev-iL wrote:@Rseding91 @Klonan
Ignoring this problem won't make it go away. It is a FACT that you have an entity in the game with no description (this was the title of the post all along). Can you argue with that?
If you don't want to fix this because of low priority or w/e, so be it, but put it in the "wontfix" or "feature requests" forums. Saying that this is "not a bug" is unacceptable and frankly somewhat rude.
Almost none of the entities in game have descriptions.

In fact the only things that do are:
  • assembling-machine-1
  • assembling-machine-2
  • assembling-machine-3
  • logistic-robot
  • logistic-chest-active-provider
  • logistic-chest-passive-provider
  • logistic-chest-storage
  • logistic-chest-requester
  • splitter
  • fast-splitter
  • express-splitter
  • flamethrower-turret
The item request proxy not having a description doesn't harm anything.
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Re: [0.13.x]Missing in-game description for "Item Request Proxy"

Post by Dev-iL » Mon Jul 11, 2016 1:05 pm

Rseding91 wrote:Almost none of the entities in game have descriptions.
...
The item request proxy not having a description doesn't harm anything.
It harms the user experience!

Other entities are either introduced in the tutorial, have some description when researching the technology that allows to build them, or at the very least have guide page or a wiki article. How many entities have none of the above?

Let's consider the following scenario where the Item Request Proxy is encountered by a player for the first time:
  • You, the developer, had a good intention - you wanted to notify the player that he had no modules to place in the building, and that once he did, the robots would place them in the structure.
  • I, the player, see a blue triangle with an image of a construction robot. I hover over it and see list of modules. So something that has to do with construction robots and modules... ok. Now I click on it and it goes away. Odd. What was it trying to tell me? Should I try to retrace my last few actions and try to figure out when it appears?
  • If I'm a a perceptive person, I would also notice the completely-different (color and image - yellow cog) "missing parts" warning sign that happens to point to the same building I'm looking at.
  • If I'm both perceptive and sufficiently bright, I would combine these tangentially-related indications ("modules" + "construction robot" + "missing parts warning") together and realize that the construction bots perhaps didn't have the modules to put in the building... But I already canceled it, can I bring it back somehow? No? :(
Long story short - wouldn't it be simpler to just tell the player what you mean?
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