[0.13.0] Spawners spawn far too close

[5thHorseman]

Do they actually migrate, or does the game spawn a new base somewhere near another base? I mean, was new base spawning changed to maybe only occur at the location of a current biter?

If so, that's awesome. Especially if some biters are actually "base makers" that actually wander around looking for a suitable base (or at least randomly walk to a new place to set up a base).

If not, can a new base spawn "near" an old base, but across your defensive lines? That doesn't sound all that kosher but it will make collecting alien artifacts easier

[Oxyd]

Do they actually migrate, or does the game spawn a new base somewhere near another base? I mean, was new base spawning changed to maybe only occur at the location of a current biter?

If so, that's awesome. Especially if some biters are actually "base makers" that actually wander around looking for a suitable base (or at least randomly walk to a new place to set up a base).

If not, can a new base spawn "near" an old base, but across your defensive lines? That doesn't sound all that kosher but it will make collecting alien artifacts easier

They have to migrate – nothing's changed about this aspect since prevoius versions. Only which chunks they're allowed to migrate to.

[ixnorp]

Do they actually migrate, or does the game spawn a new base somewhere near another base? I mean, was new base spawning changed to maybe only occur at the location of a current biter?

If so, that's awesome. Especially if some biters are actually "base makers" that actually wander around looking for a suitable base (or at least randomly walk to a new place to set up a base).

If not, can a new base spawn "near" an old base, but across your defensive lines? That doesn't sound all that kosher but it will make collecting alien artifacts easier

They have to migrate – nothing's changed about this aspect since prevoius versions. Only which chunks they're allowed to migrate to.

I never did the "Victory Post" thing myself as it seemed a bit too cheaty for my taste, but I've heard it mentioned a fair amount by YouTubers and such. Examining the debug output of show_enemy_expansion_chunks and the new show_enemy_expansion_chunks_values shows minor objects seem to only reduce the chance for a chunk to be an expansion candidate by a small amount where as large, enclosed areas prevent it entirely. Rather than the former behavior of simply disallowing any new bases from spawning in a particular area. Which leads to the result of chunks on the perimeter of bases being candidates for expansion. Interesting.

This seems like it may lead to some very dense biter bases in the wild over time as chunks right on top of other bases are still allowed to be considered expansion candidate chunks.

[Oxyd]

large, enclosed areas prevent it entirely.

That is not true, actually. There is still the mechanic that an expansion candidate chunk has to be within 7 chunks of any already existing base. This is so that the migration distances are kept reasonable and biters don't just randomly migrate across the entire map. So what you're seeing is that the middle of your factory isn't within 7 chunks of any other biter base.

[mooklepticon]

I guess what I'm asking is that, apart from turrets, can you stop the enemies from "migrating" like in 0.12.x by building something?

Lots of walls.

[5thHorseman]

Do they actually migrate, or does the game spawn a new base somewhere near another base?

They have to migrate – nothing's changed about this aspect since prevoius versions. Only which chunks they're allowed to migrate to.

There is still the mechanic that an expansion candidate chunk has to be within 7 chunks of any already existing base. This is so that the migration distances are kept reasonable and biters don't just randomly migrate across the entire map. So what you're seeing is that the middle of your factory isn't within 7 chunks of any other biter base.

I think I'm misunderstanding migrating. For you, does "migrating" and "spawn a new base somewhere near another base" mean exactly the same thing?

I don't actually know how it used to work. I'm fairly new (I don't even have triple digit hours into the game yet!) and currently my only interaction with biters is that they attack my stuff and I attack their stuff.

[Loewchen]

I think I'm misunderstanding migrating. For you, does "migrating" and "spawn a new base somewhere near another base" mean exactly the same thing?

I don't actually know how it used to work. I'm fairly new (I don't even have triple digit hours into the game yet!) and currently my only interaction with biters is that they attack my stuff and I attack their stuff.

It means, that enemy bases don't just pop into existence. A biter has to "plant" the new enemy base, if there are turrets it will fight and (hopefully) die instead and no base will be created.

[5thHorseman]

It means, that enemy bases don't just pop into existence. A biter has to "plant" the new enemy base, if there are turrets it will fight and (hopefully) die instead and no base will be created.

Okay cool so a factory surrounded by turrets and/or walls is totally safe from a spontaneous biter base appearing right next to your oil pumps. Thank you. And that's a cool mechanic and exactly what I wanted. I won't say I never used victory poles, but I will say I never liked it

[m44v]

I think I'm misunderstanding migrating. For you, does "migrating" and "spawn a new base somewhere near another base" mean exactly the same thing?

I don't actually know how it used to work. I'm fairly new (I don't even have triple digit hours into the game yet!) and currently my only interaction with biters is that they attack my stuff and I attack their stuff.

migrating means that a group of biters will go to a place suitable for expansion, and wait there, if they are left alone the spawners spawn. Once in a while I check the map for any red dots in places where they shouldn't be and wipe them out before they put down roots so to speak.

[Rseding91]

You can always just enable peaceful mode or disable biters completely if you don't want to fight them.

[spoderman_spoody]

I'd rather just have it the way it was before ... If I didn't want them to spawn I place structures/crates/poles ..If I want them to spawn I clear the base (farm the artifacts) leave..

This new update is super annoying. I'ts manageable sure but it just forces you into this "wall all the things with laser turrets" mentality which is super uninteractive

[Mr. Tact]

Personally I feel the game is more about logistics than alien fighting. This change pushes alien fighting more to the forefront. If this were a democracy I'd vote for it changing back to the way it was. This is not a democracy.

[Sakata]

I'd actually like to see this as a configuration option for the map. Then people can have their cake, and eat it too. If you want it to be super annoying with crap spawning right next to your base and hammering it, can turn the base distance down, if you like the game to have challenge with expansion but not to have to babysit every freakin' wall in the entire base (Ours is currently almost as big as the map screen for resource mines), then you can turn the slider up.

My thing is that the victory pole thing while cheesy as hell was a way to reduce annoying base spawns right next to your base, and give you a buffer zone so you can focus on making your base instead of running around repairing walls/replacing construction bots and packs everywhere.

I didn't use victory poles, and I had fun with both the occasional attack and building up my base, plus having to carry extra stuff when doing expansions. If people used them that was up to them and it fit their playstyle.

I think the bigger issue is people being forced to play a certain way. Choice imo is always better.

[ytsejam]

I think I'm misunderstanding migrating. For you, does "migrating" and "spawn a new base somewhere near another base" mean exactly the same thing?

I don't actually know how it used to work. I'm fairly new (I don't even have triple digit hours into the game yet!) and currently my only interaction with biters is that they attack my stuff and I attack their stuff.

It means, that enemy bases don't just pop into existence. A biter has to "plant" the new enemy base, if there are turrets it will fight and (hopefully) die instead and no base will be created.

Ok, now I'm confused. I know bitters plant new bases, but spawners can never pop into existence in any way? What about worms? In one of my earlier games (0.12.x) I'm pretty sure an enemy spawner with a big worm just pop right on top of my nearest coal source. I saw the coal, went south to set my iron drill, came back a minute later or so and there was spitter spawner and a big worm. Of course, it's possible that I just didn't see them when I first got there, but I don't think so, because the coal was in my starting area (default settings) and you're not supposed to have enemies there when you start a new game right?

Again, maybe my mind is playing tricks, maybe it wasn't in the starting area, maybe I just didn't realize it's something that was changed a long time ago,but are you saying something like this is no longer possible? (look what happens at 24:40)

I know it's a pretty old Factorio version, I didn't even know about the game when this video was made. Just checking if that's something that can't happen anymore.

[Nulluhrzehn]

I am dealing with this issue, too. Biter bases keep spawning close to lone turrets I set up to defend a train track or just some paths. As soon as I come within a certain range of the turrets (6 blocks or so) the aliens start rushing my turrets and destroy them. I really dislike how the turrets don't stop them from creating their spawners on one hand, but on the other hand: as soon as the spawners are created, the turrets are within the aggro-range of the base and pull endless waves of aliens towards themselves. They keep spawning on my train tracks as well.
In these two pictures you can see proof of both issues.

I do have to say, that I appreciate them not immediately attacking those rails and waiting for me to come within range, though. ^^
This way I can look at the map and see "Oops, we have a code red on the western oil track", hop in my car and deal with it, but it still sucks how they are humping my turret everytime when I arrive at the site.

In Factorio 0.12. it was basically impossible to be attacked without pollution. In 0.13. they just migrate right next to your "peacefull" and "clean" turrets and radars and raise hell.
I accept this as a feature, though it's a kick in the nuts for my old playstyle. I'll just adapt as always.

[Mini-Me]

I remembered the victory poles from Zisteau's videos. He showed he left power poles in the cleared areas and even explained the debug info regarding base expansion. So after turret creeping some nearby nests out to reduce the attacks I was getting I left the poles behind to test if it still works... well, of course it didn't:

Victory poles definitely don't work anymore, they build bases right next to them. Aaand they even ate one...

Victory_Pole.PNG (1.86 MiB) Viewed 4746 times