[kovarex] [2.0.14] Parameter system doesn't allow assemblers to select the empty barrel recipe

[Skellitor301]

Parameter system doesn't let you select the empty barrel recipe in assemblers as shown in the screenshot below.


You can select the assembler to fill barrels but emptying them doesn't show up in the list when you have parameterized blueprints set up correctly. Blueprint for the assembler setup with parameter settings here:

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[LCStark]

The barrel is between the copper cable and electronic circuit in your picture.

[robot256]

Crafting an empty barrel from steel plates is different from emptying a particular barrel of fluid. Is it the "empty X barrel" recipe that is missing?

[LCStark]

Crafting an empty barrel from steel plates is different from emptying a particular barrel of fluid. Is it the "empty X barrel" recipe that is missing?

Right, sorry, I misunderstood.

They seem to work for me if I create my blueprint from scratch:

11-09-2024, 00-12-02.png (315.9 KiB) Viewed 1351 times

There must be something going on in your parameter setup.

[LCStark]

I figured it out. It doesn't seem to be working when the output storage chest filter is set to the same parameter as the recipe. Removing the filter seems to have fixed it:

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I'm assuming it breaks because you can't set the chest filter to the recipe-only icon.

[Skellitor301]

Yeah it was the emptying barrel recipe, not the recipe to make an empty barrel with steel. Essentially being used to transport liquids with a bot mall.
The way I set up parameters was essentially to allow you to set a recipe and it would set the storage chest to filter the result and have the inserters connect to the logistics network and only work when the item is below a stack.

As for the solution that does make sense, might suggest then for Wube if this could be an option to set parameterized blueprints to include the emptying liquid barrel recipes would be useful. Especially considering the fill barrel recipe is available, having the emptying barrel recipe would help avoid this kind of confusion.

[LCStark]

Yeah it was the emptying barrel recipe, not the recipe to make an empty barrel with steel. Essentially being used to transport liquids with a bot mall.

As for the solution that does make sense, might suggest then for Wube if this could be an option to set parameterized blueprints to include the emptying liquid barrel recipes would be useful. Especially considering the fill barrel recipe is available, having the emptying barrel recipe would help avoid this kind of confusion.

I'm sorry, I don't think I understand your problem now. You can use the the empty barrel recipe. Just remove the #0 parameter from storage chest filter. I'm assuming you don't want it there anyway, since that chest is supposed to store output empty steel barrels.

[Skellitor301]

Yeah it was the emptying barrel recipe, not the recipe to make an empty barrel with steel. Essentially being used to transport liquids with a bot mall.

As for the solution that does make sense, might suggest then for Wube if this could be an option to set parameterized blueprints to include the emptying liquid barrel recipes would be useful. Especially considering the fill barrel recipe is available, having the emptying barrel recipe would help avoid this kind of confusion.

I'm sorry, I don't think I understand your problem now. You can use the the empty barrel recipe. Just remove the #0 parameter from storage chest filter. I'm assuming you don't want it there anyway, since that chest is supposed to store output empty steel barrels.

So the goal of the blueprint I have set up is to essentially streamline bot malls by selecting the recipe with some inserter and storage logic to ensure the network has at least a stack of the item. This essentially is done by using the parameters to set a filter for the storage chest so bots can't just use it for miscellaneous storage and only allow the set recipe and any excess in the network to be stored at the mall. The blueprint also has the inserters connected to the network and enable only when less than a stack of the item is in the network at any given time.

This was what I was hoping parameters could do with any item that the machines can make. When I came across the barreling recipes I saw that you can barrel liquids using this method, but the emptying the liquid barrel recipe is missing, hence the confusion it made. It's not very clear to why one side of this process is shown and not the other and I thought it was a bug. So, to avoid confusion from others I was suggesting to add a rule to the parameters to include a method to set parameters with outputs that don't match the recipe like the emptying a barrel recipe producing a steel barrel.

The other thing that confuses me a bit is the fact that you can parameterize the liquids themselves, despite liquids not being items. I've noticed this when on Volcanus and I was using this method to set up the furnaces and the parameters let you use lava as well as molten metal in requester chests.

[LCStark]

So the goal of the blueprint I have set up is to essentially streamline bot malls by selecting the recipe with some inserter and storage logic to ensure the network has at least a stack of the item. This essentially is done by using the parameters to set a filter for the storage chest so bots can't just use it for miscellaneous storage and only allow the set recipe and any excess in the network to be stored at the mall. The blueprint also has the inserters connected to the network and enable only when less than a stack of the item is in the network at any given time.

This was what I was hoping parameters could do with any item that the machines can make. When I came across the barreling recipes I saw that you can barrel liquids using this method, but the emptying the liquid barrel recipe is missing, hence the confusion it made. It's not very clear to why one side of this process is shown and not the other and I thought it was a bug. So, to avoid confusion from others I was suggesting to add a rule to the parameters to include a method to set parameters with outputs that don't match the recipe like the emptying a barrel recipe producing a steel barrel.

Ah, I see! Yeah, that is the issue, with other recipes the "recipe" icon is the same as the "output item" icon, and that doesn't match for the unbarrelling recipes. Adding "recipe product 1", "recipe product 2" in the same manner we can now use "recipe ingredient 1", "recipe ingredient 2" would be a good suggestion, though that's probably something better suited for the Ideas and Suggestions forum.

The other thing that confuses me a bit is the fact that you can parameterize the liquids themselves, despite liquids not being items. I've noticed this when on Volcanus and I was using this method to set up the furnaces and the parameters let you use lava as well as molten metal in requester chests.

I haven't delved too deep into the parametrization system, but I'd assume maybe that's because you can set liquid filters on pumps? Though yeah, they shouldn't be usable in the requesters the same way you can't use the unbarrelling recipe as a filter. Seems like something that was overlooked.

[kovarex]

So I checked the blueprint, and it all works as intended. The storage chest has [0] as filter, which limits this parameter to be an item, and there is no item "empty barrel"

[Skellitor301]

So I checked the blueprint, and it all works as intended. The storage chest has [0] as filter, which limits this parameter to be an item, and there is no item "empty barrel"

Yes, the intention though was to be able to select the recipe for emptying barrels as that's something you can do with most other things. I've managed a work around with the aid of LCStark that allows this kind of behavior but it makes setting the recipe slightly more tedious than the original blueprint was intending. See this blueprint here:

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The intention was to make a universal bot based blueprint that lets you stamp down quick assemblers, or any crafting machines really, and be able to select the recipe and have the parameters fill out the rest. This version can do this but it requires you to select both the recipe and the output item. This method allows one to select recipes the other cannot like unbarreling liquids or the Kovarex processing recipe, since those have different outputs than the recipe itself, vs something like the green circuit recipe that both the recipe and output items are the same. With the unbarreling recipe, if I were to want to select it, the output would be a steel barrel which the parameters don't recognize unless I do this alternative method of parameterized blueprinting, separating the output item from the recipe itself.

[ickputzdirwech]

I think there are actually three reasons why this is at least inconsistent:

1. Strangely the kind of restriction you're talking about is only in place in one direction:

   So I checked the blueprint, and it all works as intended. The storage chest has [0] as filter, which limits this parameter to be an item, and there is no item "empty barrel"

   • As you said I can't select a recipe that has no corresponding item.
   • I can however select an item that can't be produced in that machine. For example place the folowing blueprint and select iron plate:
     
     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     In that case no recipe is set. It would be consistent to allow to select a recipe without corresponding item and then setting no filter in the storage chest.
2. There already must be some matching function between items and recipes since they are different prototypes. As others have said there actually is a valid item corresponding to the recipe: its first product (in this case the barrel). Why don't extend the matching function to cases where the prototype names of the recipe and the item are not the same but instead fall back on the first product?
3. Inside the requester chest a request for fluid ingredients is set by parameters, even though it makes no sense whatsoever and I can't set it manually. This is considered NaB. See 118604. Setting the filter of the storage chest to the recipe would be the equivalent. This would also make no sense but it would be consistent with the behaviour of the requester chest and a better solution than simply not allowing to select that recipe.

[Skellitor301]

The fluid in the requester chest I had seen before and personally I find kinda funny and harmless. It's simple enough to just clear it if anyone is bothered by it imo. As for the main issue of having recipes that are processing recipes like the unbarreling recipe I have seen someone in one of the other threads suggest separating the resulting product and the recipe from one another, as the parameterization system seems to treat both as one in the same. At least in this case it does. Someone did suggest to add an extra parameter type, adding to the option where you can select a parameter to be an ingredient of another to include an option to set a parameter to be the result of another, which is a good solution to this issue. I do hope Kovarex or another person of staff would recheck this bug report as they did miss the issue here. It's not a matter of there not being an empty barrel item, but rather that the processing recipes

[tolomea]

So I checked the blueprint, and it all works as intended. The storage chest has [0] as filter, which limits this parameter to be an item, and there is no item "empty barrel"

Usability wise it'd be better if it showed the recipe grey'd out with a tooltip saying that the parameter needs an item.

Consistency wise, if you use a parameter in an inserter/chest it limits it to items, if you use it in a foundry it limits it to recipes the foundry can make, if you use it in both you'd think it'd limit it to the intersection of those, but actually it limits it to items. Coupled with the first point this is VERY confusing.

Convenience wise it'd be nice if an alt recipe used as a parameter in a place which needs an item was replaced with the item it makes.

Also it's weird that the game has this item / recipe hang up but does not mind if you set a storage chest to be filtered to a fluid.

[tolomea]

Setting the filter of the storage chest to the recipe would be the equivalent. This would also make no sense but it would be consistent with the behaviour of the requester chest and a better solution than simply not allowing to select that recipe.

If nothing else that consistency would be great for discovery, you'd be able to see the recipe ending up in a place where that makes no sense and thus have some hope of working out what was going wrong and why. Currently it just feels like "computer says no".