I'm here to give my personnal opinion on the new introduction scenario introduced in 0.17. I'm not a native english speaker so please forgive me for any mistakes I make in the following wall of text:
Before I begin, since that's my first ever post, I want to say I agree with every changes brought by the patch 0.17 not related to the new introduction campaing. Especially the map generator: I generated about 10-15 maps with default settings and I would have played on every map I saw (as opposite to the 0.16 generator where I felt I needed to generate 10-15 times before finding something to my taste). I haven't tested a lot (no savegame to load) but from the patch note, everything seems perfect.
Also, I took a very long time to write this and try to organise this post in a readable state. By writing this I was able to pinpoint what was the problem I felt I had with the current Introduction scenario. I took a couple of hours, another small playtrough and a night to think about it before I felt I could publish this. Its still messy but I don't want to spend more time on this... I hope this will be clear enough to understand what I'm trying to explain.
Now, about the new introduction, I had some expectations and I was disapointed, but not for the same reasons than most peoples are (for what I read on the forum so far). Here's what I think:
First, I expected to have something like freeplay but with objective and somes explanations (some how to), something more like the old tutorial but on the same map. The new introduction, I did not finished it. I stopped right when we discover the first biters base (on the left, before we even get attacked). So i will not judge the difficulty, I don't know about that. At that stage, I was already in a disagreement with the introduction. But why? That's a good question I'll try to answer as best as I can. Each of the folowing paragraph will talk about different things but I will make the links between them at the end.
While playing the introduction, I remember I had the folowing tought: That looks good for a first campaing scenarion, but thats not a freeplay tutorials. This is not what factorio freeplay is about (and, if there were not to be a future campaing in this game, I would say: This is not what factorio is about). I'll say 2 words that I will reuse later: Discovery and Expirement. For me, Factorio is about discovery and expirement. This is how I have fun with this game. I was expecting a scenario where you assist the new player in learning the start of a freeplay style game: harvest, cook, instertes/belt and then electricity.
My tought:
I was expecting a tutorial step by step to get ready for freeplay. This is not what I felt this was.
When I played the demo for the first time (with the old tutorial), i did not finished it because I bought the game just after starting the third mission. I was amazed. First, no need to grind ressources like in other games I played before. Then the conveyor, then the inserters, then a way to connecter the output of drills to furnace to chest. And finally, electricity! That was the kind of game I was looking for since a long time ago and just this sample was enough (with the general quality of the game (not bug encoutered for example, even for a early acces)) to make me buy this game. I was amazed! Then, after buying the game, I discovered the assembler and more advanced things in the campaing (didn't got far and opted to start a peacefull freeplay game). I was quite stuck until I read about the main bus concept and with that, I made it trought the rocket launch (still in peacefull). All the way, I had a lot of WOW! moment, beginning with the first steps tutorial I played in the demo to the rocket launch. I was amazed to the beginning till the end!
My tought:
I think the current tutorial takes too much shorcuts to try to teachs somes things right away. More details about that below
FFF #284
Thanks for that, it really explain why the introduction was made that way and I will use that to explain where my disagreement is. I'll throw quotes from the FFF:
I consider a tutorial should teach the player how to use the tools in the game so he can discover the concept of the game himself. He can then expirement in freeplay with the tools and discover more along the way. BUT, if the player do not intend to use the freeplay game mode and instead opt to go on the campaing, this might be another story. From my personnal expericence, I learned about the production concept while playing freeplay and trying things by myself. I had the basics knowledge to do it thanks to the first step tutorial and that was enough (especially considering there is now in game tutorial for individual things like train and robots).The deepest, broadest and most important concept we need to teach in Factorio is that of Production. That is the end goal,
Yes, but by removing all obstacles (like electricity), you remove some of what I call the "wow" factor. I understand you want to teach automation as fast as possible but by doing so, you remove part of the discovery; part of what made my buy this game at first.Our job is to teach them how to take the recipe and translate it into a production chain. This is the single most important lesson on the road to automation, so I set out to remove all obstacles.
No need to. Let him discover that by himself. Dont remove that pleasure form the game experience right at the start.The factory must grow. This is Factorio. Progress never ending. How do we teach a new player the concept of never having enough?
Killing the biters is not mandatory for somebody who play peacefull freepay. I still think it should have some presentation of the biters like lights attacks from the biters and/or 1 nest cleaning, especially if this is going to be the demo of the game. But having something basic like in the old tutorial (simple attack, one or 2 turret to place) is far enough to understand what is needed to stop the biters. Let the player learn by himself the concept of automation and scale.In Factorio there are only three ways that the player consumes items:
Converting items into research progress.
Constructing the factory.
Killing Biters (either for defense or for land acquisition).
This one I fully agree and thats why i'm playing with biters now. It add an extra production layer. I don't like the sense of urgency it add (I'm not good at STR games because of that, I play too slow) but with some planning, you can cope with that.killing Biters is not about combat, it is a production challenge
Now, thanks to this FFF, I understand exactly what I didn't like in the introduction and why I did not finished it. I felt something in the way the scenario was unfolding. To sum up:
You try to teach automation concept and try to show at what scale it can go.
I disagree with doing that in a tutorial. It remove some of the discovery and some of the "wow" of the game in my opinion.
Now, why did I call this post "Introduction vs Tutorial vs Demo"?
Because I think the main problem is there: the goal.
If you want an introduction to a future campaing, it might be right on target
If you want a tutorial to be able to play in freeplay mode, I think the current scenario misses the target
If you want a Demo scenario to make people want to buy the game, maybe that is good for the usual target players for this game but, in my case, im really not sure I would have bought this game with that kind of scenario. Maybe with the polishing to come, I will change my mind about that but still, my main disagreement will remain.
Here's what I would consider:
- Make a tutorial similar with the idea of the old one to teach new players the basics tools of the game. This would be for the freeplay type of players.
- Keep the introduction scenario and make it the first scenario of the campaing mode.
- Include both in the demo, clearly separate them (I consider the current introduction not to be a good representation of freeplay, for the reasons stated above).
If you absolutely want to introduce the biters production concept as stated in the FFF, keep it in the introduction and just do basic biters fighting in the tutorial.
To conclude, I got some final unorganised tought that might help understand what I'm thinking:
- Please, don't forget those who want to play this game peacefully (no biters). It can be as simple as dividing the current tutorial in 2 part (can be on the same map but make a clear distinction), one for building, the others about time pressure (biters fighting).
- Time pressure, don't make it mandatory.
- Don't force new players to learn shorcuts.
- Don't force players to understand. Let them discover.
So in the end, as you can see, I think I don't have the profile of the usual factorio player so I don't expect a big change about the introduction and the general idea behind it. But I wanted to share a point of view from another side of what looks like the usual factorio player. I hope this wall of text was readable, I took a long time to write, erase, re-write and organise the whole thing...
Bonus!
I did a second playtrough and written down any tought I had when doing it. Got less far than the first time but it helped me do this post and that was enough. This is messy... but some things I observed were not mentionned above because the introduction is not polished so most of the "complains" here are not a problem.
Second playtrough raw observation and tought:
Shortcut forced to the player
Presence of assembler and lab (why is that here at the start, Have I not just crashed?)
Shortcut forced to the player simple text change ("you may do this", instead of "do this") (polishing)
why deconstruct? (polishing)
too much info? to much hand holding? (semi-polishing)
Transition compilatron to objective panel: please highlight at start like in old demo
"roleplay" element lacking. No impression i just crashed. Im just folowing instruction.
No quickbar at start. Little strange for vet but no factor for new player. (keep that way)
no fuel in inventory for first furnace. Something weird in the flow of tutorial but cannot put my finger on it yet. Now would be not enough hand holding ?!?
No camera explanation yet, need dezomming to find iron ore (simple addition / polishing)
retreiving plate and automatic intermediary product crafting lacking
presentation of the burner mining drill crafting: tell player to look at drill recipe, gain ressources and craft one (currently, tell to get 3 iron and then craft on but it require more)
compilatron in empty corner (polishing)
no word about mining area (need to look at recipe) (not enough hand holding?)
"build chest here" (not enough explanation on why, too much specific solution right away?)(alternative existe (pick up ourself, belt, furnace (not on coal case)))
"build chest here" (need to say craft it before?)
Sould I had accumulated some wood at the start so I dont have to interrupt the learning by going cutting some for the chest?
Lol, burner missing coal, saw the compilatron coming, add some fuel and compilatron turn right away. Hihihi
"Item required" Why dont he tell me right away what is missing? Have to search for information (it is on top left, is that soo hard to move my eyes...
)Got the task to craft belt but got no drill on metal yet... the drill I will craft is for the compilatron chest.
Gave what compilatron asked for but now it disapear. contradict this:
I already had placed a drill for coal, why now i need to give one to compilatron to have it disappear??? (maybe a simple polishing problem)I mentioned above that we wanted to remove quests which ask you to produce items for no reason. Several times in the old campaign the player was asked to produce 100’s or even 1000’s of items "because you will need them", only to move to the next level and take them all away.
- compilatron demonstration: why not making me building those thing on ghost building instead (too much hand holding on this one, let me build!)
- at least, it gave some justification for previous step, but compilatron managed to multiply my donation. great
- it remind me of minecraft redstone tutorial. those which showed the whole thing and then explained how it work were bad, those which just told you place this at that place were great cause you just had to build thing step by step and then you could see your own build and analyse it yourself. the tutorial should teach me how to use the game tool, not why, i will figure out why myself when i get to my own production problem
- control + left mouse is good for a tip, not for instruction, let me take the content the way i want (too much hand holding now ?!? whats wrong with me?)
- "feed iron plate to the feeder" using what? why not, before that, presenting the transport belt (not enough hand holding ?!?!?)
need tip on right clic for crafting 5. tip, not obligation please
now i need to maintain the drill I have not built with fuel.
I stop now, I think I found what I was looking for. I disagree not only with the objective but also with the way things are presented in the introduction scenario.
Prefered the old tutorial much more, much simpler and step by step without being forced to learn all shortcut at once.
