Nitrogen recipe is pointless

pyanodon's mods are here

Moderator: pyanodon

Post Reply
shadowpho
Inserter
Inserter
Posts: 44
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2019 6:03 pm
Contact:

Nitrogen recipe is pointless

Post by shadowpho »

Nitrogen from cold air seems like a great recipe (8000 nitrogen from 800 cold air? not bad).

However, when I expand it out.... it doesn't make sense anymore.

I adjusted values for what my base currently uses (12 mk2 destruction columns), which is ~18000 nitrogen/minute.


To get that much we need 933 of cold purified air, which takes 1245 cold air, which takes 1245 liquid nitrogen (12500 nitrogen), and 200 black things (which requires 2000 more nitrogen, 83 zinc chloride AND 830 COAL!!!)

So the actual values are you get ~3000 nitrogen out by using 1300 gasoline + 830 charcoal + 83 zinc chloride + some biofilm... Doesn't seem like it's worth it to me :(

Image

Blokus
Fast Inserter
Fast Inserter
Posts: 200
Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2019 2:49 pm
Contact:

Re: Nitrogen recipe is pointless

Post by Blokus »

Seems like a recipe got oopsie'd, similar to what happened with kevlar...

immortal_sniper1
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 600
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2018 8:54 am
Contact:

Re: Nitrogen recipe is pointless

Post by immortal_sniper1 »

it is positive i think ther is a hellmod problem , again............

cooling loop is perfect
regarding the active carbon that was not that much if i remember well

also what version do you use?

shadowpho
Inserter
Inserter
Posts: 44
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2019 6:03 pm
Contact:

Re: Nitrogen recipe is pointless

Post by shadowpho »

Here's direct in game stats :
3 activated carbon + 400 cold clean air -> 8k nitrogen
1 biofilm + 100 cold air -> 75 cold clean air +3 petroleum
120 purified air + 45 liq nitrogen -> 45 cold air + 450 nitrogen
3 activated carbon + 100 press air -> 50 purified air

so let's base it to top level.

3 activated carbon + 400 cold clean air (which is 5.3 biofilm + 533 cold air) = 8k nitrogen + 15.3 petrleum

3 activated carbon + 5.3 biofilm + 533 cold air (1421 purified air + 533 liq nitrogen) = 8k nitrogen + 15 petrol + 5.3k nitrogen

3 activated carbon + 5.3 biofilm + 1421 purified air (85.26 activated carbon + 2.8k press air) + 533 liq nitrogen (5.3k nitrogen + 533 gasoline) = 8k nitrogen + 15 petrol + 5.3k nitrogen

88.26 activated carbon (353.5 coke, 35.4 zinc chloride, 71 sodium hydroxide + 800 nitrogen) + 5.3 biofilm + 2.8k pressured air + 533 gasoline = 8k nitrogen

354 coke + 35 zinc chloride + 71 sodium hydroxide + 5.3 biofilm + 2.8k pressured air + 533 gasoline = 7.2k nitrogen... haha

It's cheaper to go out in middle of nowhere, put some solar power and just destructive distillation ha.

Mods are pretty much the latest.
Image

immortal_sniper1
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 600
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2018 8:54 am
Contact:

Re: Nitrogen recipe is pointless

Post by immortal_sniper1 »

shadowpho wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 8:35 pm
Here's direct in game stats :
3 activated carbon + 400 cold clean air -> 8k nitrogen
1 biofilm + 100 cold air -> 75 cold clean air +3 petroleum
120 purified air + 45 liq nitrogen -> 45 cold air + 450 nitrogen
3 activated carbon + 100 press air -> 50 purified air

so let's base it to top level.

3 activated carbon + 400 cold clean air (which is 5.3 biofilm + 533 cold air) = 8k nitrogen + 15.3 petrleum

3 activated carbon + 5.3 biofilm + 533 cold air (1421 purified air + 533 liq nitrogen) = 8k nitrogen + 15 petrol + 5.3k nitrogen

3 activated carbon + 5.3 biofilm + 1421 purified air (85.26 activated carbon + 2.8k press air) + 533 liq nitrogen (5.3k nitrogen + 533 gasoline) = 8k nitrogen + 15 petrol + 5.3k nitrogen

88.26 activated carbon (353.5 coke, 35.4 zinc chloride, 71 sodium hydroxide + 800 nitrogen) + 5.3 biofilm + 2.8k pressured air + 533 gasoline = 8k nitrogen

354 coke + 35 zinc chloride + 71 sodium hydroxide + 5.3 biofilm + 2.8k pressured air + 533 gasoline = 7.2k nitrogen... haha

It's cheaper to go out in middle of nowhere, put some solar power and just destructive distillation ha.

Mods are pretty much the latest.
Image
the OP must have very old version of the mods since in the past it was negative also regarding the price this method is more expensive BUT is is FAR more compact , well this is how i balanced it because py made me understand it this way , tho it was a long time ago , so im not sure about the reason

shadowpho
Inserter
Inserter
Posts: 44
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2019 6:03 pm
Contact:

Re: Nitrogen recipe is pointless

Post by shadowpho »

I think it got over nerfered as a side effect of nerfing helium. :). The way to make helium relies on cold\refined air, but that's also shared with nitrogen process. Therefore nerfing helium via cold\refined air = nerfing this process.

The problem is that this process is NOT space efficient once you add in the additional coal processing machinery required. 9x destruction distillation towers make a lot of nitrogen, but are way cheaper then this.

immortal_sniper1
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 600
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2018 8:54 am
Contact:

Re: Nitrogen recipe is pointless

Post by immortal_sniper1 »

shadowpho wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 5:37 am
I think it got over nerfered as a side effect of nerfing helium. :). The way to make helium relies on cold\refined air, but that's also shared with nitrogen process. Therefore nerfing helium via cold\refined air = nerfing this process.

The problem is that this process is NOT space efficient once you add in the additional coal processing machinery required. 9x destruction distillation towers make a lot of nitrogen, but are way cheaper then this.
i forgot about that i will redo the math and return with an answer , if it is negative i will talk with py

ShadowGlass
Inserter
Inserter
Posts: 38
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2016 1:50 pm
Contact:

Re: Nitrogen recipe is pointless

Post by ShadowGlass »

The only place I use Cold Clean Air is where it's unavoidable (Heavy P Doped Silicon). Currently it's not worth using it for either Nitrogen or Helium.

I make about half of my Nitrogen from Bitumen in Ionic Upgrader. For the other half I use the Distillation Column/Filter route.

For Helium I use the long chain of Gravel => Dry Gas Stream => High Purified Gas => Rich Gas => Liquid Rich Gas => Helium Rich Gas => Purier Helium Gas => Helium. It's a long chain, but you'll probably only need one building in each step. Especially later with MK3-4 buildings, as you can use prod modules in this chain. With prod modules, the longer the chain, the more the benefits stack up (don't nerf).

Blokus
Fast Inserter
Fast Inserter
Posts: 200
Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2019 2:49 pm
Contact:

Re: Nitrogen recipe is pointless

Post by Blokus »

ShadowGlass wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 1:26 pm
The only place I use Cold Clean Air is where it's unavoidable (Heavy P Doped Silicon). Currently it's not worth using it for either Nitrogen or Helium.

I make about half of my Nitrogen from Bitumen in Ionic Upgrader. For the other half I use the Distillation Column/Filter route.

For Helium I use the long chain of Gravel => Dry Gas Stream => High Purified Gas => Rich Gas => Liquid Rich Gas => Helium Rich Gas => Purier Helium Gas => Helium. It's a long chain, but you'll probably only need one building in each step. Especially later with MK3-4 buildings, as you can use prod modules in this chain. With prod modules, the longer the chain, the more the benefits stack up (don't nerf).
To my understanding from my conversation with immortal_sniper1 on the subject, the intention is for players to use regolite to get helium. As it stands it isn't really that much better than gravel, but don't be surprised to see the gravel route get nerfed and/or the regolite route get buffed.

immortal_sniper1
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 600
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2018 8:54 am
Contact:

Re: Nitrogen recipe is pointless

Post by immortal_sniper1 »

Blokus wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 2:37 pm
ShadowGlass wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 1:26 pm
The only place I use Cold Clean Air is where it's unavoidable (Heavy P Doped Silicon). Currently it's not worth using it for either Nitrogen or Helium.

I make about half of my Nitrogen from Bitumen in Ionic Upgrader. For the other half I use the Distillation Column/Filter route.

For Helium I use the long chain of Gravel => Dry Gas Stream => High Purified Gas => Rich Gas => Liquid Rich Gas => Helium Rich Gas => Purier Helium Gas => Helium. It's a long chain, but you'll probably only need one building in each step. Especially later with MK3-4 buildings, as you can use prod modules in this chain. With prod modules, the longer the chain, the more the benefits stack up (don't nerf).
To my understanding from my conversation with immortal_sniper1 on the subject, the intention is for players to use regolite to get helium. As it stands it isn't really that much better than gravel, but don't be surprised to see the gravel route get nerfed and/or the regolite route get buffed.
i did buff regolite but not to a game breaking point where it is the only option , personally i use regolite atm but i might use pgas in my next game since it is renuable

shadowpho
Inserter
Inserter
Posts: 44
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2019 6:03 pm
Contact:

Re: Nitrogen recipe is pointless

Post by shadowpho »

immortal_sniper1 wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 3:54 pm
Blokus wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 2:37 pm
ShadowGlass wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 1:26 pm
The only place I use Cold Clean Air is where it's unavoidable (Heavy P Doped Silicon). Currently it's not worth using it for either Nitrogen or Helium.

I make about half of my Nitrogen from Bitumen in Ionic Upgrader. For the other half I use the Distillation Column/Filter route.

For Helium I use the long chain of Gravel => Dry Gas Stream => High Purified Gas => Rich Gas => Liquid Rich Gas => Helium Rich Gas => Purier Helium Gas => Helium. It's a long chain, but you'll probably only need one building in each step. Especially later with MK3-4 buildings, as you can use prod modules in this chain. With prod modules, the longer the chain, the more the benefits stack up (don't nerf).
To my understanding from my conversation with immortal_sniper1 on the subject, the intention is for players to use regolite to get helium. As it stands it isn't really that much better than gravel, but don't be surprised to see the gravel route get nerfed and/or the regolite route get buffed.
i did buff regolite but not to a game breaking point where it is the only option , personally i use regolite atm but i might use pgas in my next game since it is renuable
Plz buff nitrogen recipe too! The nerf to to cold filtered air hit nitrogen very hard

immortal_sniper1
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 600
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2018 8:54 am
Contact:

Re: Nitrogen recipe is pointless

Post by immortal_sniper1 »

shadowpho wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 7:21 pm
immortal_sniper1 wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 3:54 pm
Blokus wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 2:37 pm
ShadowGlass wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 1:26 pm
The only place I use Cold Clean Air is where it's unavoidable (Heavy P Doped Silicon). Currently it's not worth using it for either Nitrogen or Helium.

I make about half of my Nitrogen from Bitumen in Ionic Upgrader. For the other half I use the Distillation Column/Filter route.

For Helium I use the long chain of Gravel => Dry Gas Stream => High Purified Gas => Rich Gas => Liquid Rich Gas => Helium Rich Gas => Purier Helium Gas => Helium. It's a long chain, but you'll probably only need one building in each step. Especially later with MK3-4 buildings, as you can use prod modules in this chain. With prod modules, the longer the chain, the more the benefits stack up (don't nerf).
To my understanding from my conversation with immortal_sniper1 on the subject, the intention is for players to use regolite to get helium. As it stands it isn't really that much better than gravel, but don't be surprised to see the gravel route get nerfed and/or the regolite route get buffed.
i did buff regolite but not to a game breaking point where it is the only option , personally i use regolite atm but i might use pgas in my next game since it is renuable
Plz buff nitrogen recipe too! The nerf to to cold filtered air hit nitrogen very hard
i dont have github edit rights , but i can do the math and give it to king or py , like i allays do

shadowpho
Inserter
Inserter
Posts: 44
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2019 6:03 pm
Contact:

Re: Nitrogen recipe is pointless

Post by shadowpho »

immortal_sniper1 wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 11:02 pm
shadowpho wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 7:21 pm
immortal_sniper1 wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 3:54 pm
Blokus wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 2:37 pm
ShadowGlass wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 1:26 pm
The only place I use Cold Clean Air is where it's unavoidable (Heavy P Doped Silicon). Currently it's not worth using it for either Nitrogen or Helium.

I make about half of my Nitrogen from Bitumen in Ionic Upgrader. For the other half I use the Distillation Column/Filter route.

For Helium I use the long chain of Gravel => Dry Gas Stream => High Purified Gas => Rich Gas => Liquid Rich Gas => Helium Rich Gas => Purier Helium Gas => Helium. It's a long chain, but you'll probably only need one building in each step. Especially later with MK3-4 buildings, as you can use prod modules in this chain. With prod modules, the longer the chain, the more the benefits stack up (don't nerf).
To my understanding from my conversation with immortal_sniper1 on the subject, the intention is for players to use regolite to get helium. As it stands it isn't really that much better than gravel, but don't be surprised to see the gravel route get nerfed and/or the regolite route get buffed.
i did buff regolite but not to a game breaking point where it is the only option , personally i use regolite atm but i might use pgas in my next game since it is renuable
Plz buff nitrogen recipe too! The nerf to to cold filtered air hit nitrogen very hard
i dont have github edit rights , but i can do the math and give it to king or py , like i allays do
Thank you! :) :D

Post Reply

Return to “PyMods”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users