pY Coal Processing - Discussion

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kingarthur
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Re: pY Coal Processing - Discussion

Post by kingarthur » Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:59 am

ok so doing some work and looking at just pycp and base game. pycp battery recipe just seems to be straight up worse all around.

pycp battery recipe is:

Code: Select all

copper ore * 60
steel plate * 1
sulfur * 20
chromium * 1

output:
battery * 6
or per battery

Code: Select all

copper ore * 10
steel plate * .1667 or iron plate * .83 or iron ore * .83
sulfur *  3.33
chromium * .1667

output:
battery * 1
base game recipe is:

Code: Select all

iron plate * 1 or iron ore * 1/ with crushing ore * .5
copper plate * 1 or copper ore * 1/ with crushing ore * .5
sulfuric acid * 20 or sulfur * 2

output:
battery * 1
so based on those numbers i cant see any reason to use the pycp battery recipe as its just overall more expensive and needs more tech to unlock then vanilla version. like 3 extra techs after sulfur vs vanilla 1 tech.

now maybe somebody else has a reason for why its not but i dont so i suggest some tweaks to bring them closer together

pycp battery:
cut copper ore in half to 30 ore/ 5 ore per battery
sulfur down to 15/ 2.5 per battery

vanilla battery
increase iron plate to 10/ with crushing thats 5 ore per battery
increase copper plate to 10/ with crushing thats 5 ore per battery

but idk those are just my thoughts on it

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Re: pY Coal Processing - Discussion

Post by Crixomix » Sun Jun 23, 2019 2:05 pm

Hello.

I am wondering what the fuel value of combustion mix is?

Does it work the same way as steam? Where it's linearly scaling up to its full value? Starting at 15 degrees celcius? If so, then I know how to get the fuel value. The big question is does it start at 15 degrees like steam does? So theoretically it would provide zero power at 15 celcius?

For example, the level 1 turbine can generate 24.8mw at 1000 degrees and with 60 units per second. So that's 985 degrees extra. And that's only 42% efficiency

So you take 24,800 / 985 / 60 /.42 and get .999kilojoule per unit per degree celcius above 15.

Is this correct?

Thanks.

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Re: pY Coal Processing - Discussion

Post by immortal_sniper1 » Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:14 pm

kingarthur wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:59 am
ok so doing some work and looking at just pycp and base game. pycp battery recipe just seems to be straight up worse all around.

pycp battery recipe is:

Code: Select all

copper ore * 60
steel plate * 1
sulfur * 20
chromium * 1

output:
battery * 6
or per battery

Code: Select all

copper ore * 10
steel plate * .1667 or iron plate * .83 or iron ore * .83
sulfur *  3.33
chromium * .1667

output:
battery * 1
base game recipe is:

Code: Select all

iron plate * 1 or iron ore * 1/ with crushing ore * .5
copper plate * 1 or copper ore * 1/ with crushing ore * .5
sulfuric acid * 20 or sulfur * 2

output:
battery * 1
so based on those numbers i cant see any reason to use the pycp battery recipe as its just overall more expensive and needs more tech to unlock then vanilla version. like 3 extra techs after sulfur vs vanilla 1 tech.

now maybe somebody else has a reason for why its not but i dont so i suggest some tweaks to bring them closer together

pycp battery:
cut copper ore in half to 30 ore/ 5 ore per battery
sulfur down to 15/ 2.5 per battery

vanilla battery
increase iron plate to 10/ with crushing thats 5 ore per battery
increase copper plate to 10/ with crushing thats 5 ore per battery

but idk those are just my thoughts on it
there is a reason for that and it is RAYLON in the pycp recipe it is 1:6 and in the vanilla recipe it is 1:1 or so
it is used if u want to make less raylon

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Re: pY Coal Processing - Discussion

Post by immortal_sniper1 » Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:17 pm

Crixomix wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 2:05 pm
Hello.

I am wondering what the fuel value of combustion mix is?

Does it work the same way as steam? Where it's linearly scaling up to its full value? Starting at 15 degrees celcius? If so, then I know how to get the fuel value. The big question is does it start at 15 degrees like steam does? So theoretically it would provide zero power at 15 celcius?

For example, the level 1 turbine can generate 24.8mw at 1000 degrees and with 60 units per second. So that's 985 degrees extra. And that's only 42% efficiency

So you take 24,800 / 985 / 60 /.42 and get .999kilojoule per unit per degree celcius above 15.

Is this correct?

Thanks.
combustion mix is steam of a sort (referring as to ingame coding)
regarding efficiency im not sure but it increase exponentially by turbine tier
also it doent have the same energy value as water /C / unit

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Re: pY Coal Processing - Discussion

Post by kingarthur » Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:04 pm

immortal_sniper1 wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:14 pm
kingarthur wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:59 am
ok so doing some work and looking at just pycp and base game. pycp battery recipe just seems to be straight up worse all around.

pycp battery recipe is:

Code: Select all

copper ore * 60
steel plate * 1
sulfur * 20
chromium * 1

output:
battery * 6
or per battery

Code: Select all

copper ore * 10
steel plate * .1667 or iron plate * .83 or iron ore * .83
sulfur *  3.33
chromium * .1667

output:
battery * 1
base game recipe is:

Code: Select all

iron plate * 1 or iron ore * 1/ with crushing ore * .5
copper plate * 1 or copper ore * 1/ with crushing ore * .5
sulfuric acid * 20 or sulfur * 2

output:
battery * 1
so based on those numbers i cant see any reason to use the pycp battery recipe as its just overall more expensive and needs more tech to unlock then vanilla version. like 3 extra techs after sulfur vs vanilla 1 tech.

now maybe somebody else has a reason for why its not but i dont so i suggest some tweaks to bring them closer together

pycp battery:
cut copper ore in half to 30 ore/ 5 ore per battery
sulfur down to 15/ 2.5 per battery

vanilla battery
increase iron plate to 10/ with crushing thats 5 ore per battery
increase copper plate to 10/ with crushing thats 5 ore per battery

but idk those are just my thoughts on it
there is a reason for that and it is RAYLON in the pycp recipe it is 1:6 and in the vanilla recipe it is 1:1 or so
it is used if u want to make less raylon
Theres no rylon in pycp. The recipe just uses copper ore, steel, sulfur, chromium

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Re: pY Coal Processing - Discussion

Post by theblindironman » Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:44 pm

There is no "L" in rayon.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rayon

Thank you,
Grammar police

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Re: pY Coal Processing - Discussion

Post by Pridesfall » Wed Jun 26, 2019 4:37 pm

kingarthur wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:59 am
ok so doing some work and looking at just pycp and base game. pycp battery recipe just seems to be straight up worse all around.

pycp battery recipe is:

Code: Select all

copper ore * 60
steel plate * 1
sulfur * 20
chromium * 1

output:
battery * 6
or per battery

Code: Select all

copper ore * 10
steel plate * .1667 or iron plate * .83 or iron ore * .83
sulfur *  3.33
chromium * .1667

output:
battery * 1
base game recipe is:

Code: Select all

iron plate * 1 or iron ore * 1/ with crushing ore * .5
copper plate * 1 or copper ore * 1/ with crushing ore * .5
sulfuric acid * 20 or sulfur * 2

output:
battery * 1
so based on those numbers i cant see any reason to use the pycp battery recipe as its just overall more expensive and needs more tech to unlock then vanilla version. like 3 extra techs after sulfur vs vanilla 1 tech.

now maybe somebody else has a reason for why its not but i dont so i suggest some tweaks to bring them closer together

pycp battery:
cut copper ore in half to 30 ore/ 5 ore per battery
sulfur down to 15/ 2.5 per battery

vanilla battery
increase iron plate to 10/ with crushing thats 5 ore per battery
increase copper plate to 10/ with crushing thats 5 ore per battery

but idk those are just my thoughts on it
The only recipe I have to make batteries that uses steel and chromium uses the following
1 Steel plate
20 Sulfer
1 Chromium
2 Rayon
60 Sodium Hydroxide
2 Lead plate
Yields 6 batteries

The other 3 are as follows
1 Copper plate
2 Rayon
1 Zinc Plate
20 Sulfuric acid
Yields 1 battery

2 Rayon
2 Glass
6 Lead Plate
50 Sulfuric acid
Yields 2 batteries

5 Coke
2 Rayon
5 Pyrite
4 Lead Plate
50 Sulfuric acid
Yields 2 batteries

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Re: pY Coal Processing - Discussion

Post by Blokus » Wed Jun 26, 2019 4:52 pm

I dunno how it looks without PyHT, it might not be properly balanced in that situation. But with PyHT, the point of the ostensibly "worse" recipes is to use less rayon.

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Re: pY Coal Processing - Discussion

Post by immortal_sniper1 » Wed Jun 26, 2019 5:05 pm

Blokus wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 4:52 pm
I dunno how it looks without PyHT, it might not be properly balanced in that situation. But with PyHT, the point of the ostensibly "worse" recipes is to use less rayon.
yes

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Re: pY Coal Processing - Discussion

Post by immortal_sniper1 » Wed Jun 26, 2019 5:07 pm

Pridesfall wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 4:37 pm
kingarthur wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:59 am
ok so doing some work and looking at just pycp and base game. pycp battery recipe just seems to be straight up worse all around.

pycp battery recipe is:

Code: Select all

copper ore * 60
steel plate * 1
sulfur * 20
chromium * 1

output:
battery * 6
or per battery

Code: Select all

copper ore * 10
steel plate * .1667 or iron plate * .83 or iron ore * .83
sulfur *  3.33
chromium * .1667

output:
battery * 1
base game recipe is:

Code: Select all

iron plate * 1 or iron ore * 1/ with crushing ore * .5
copper plate * 1 or copper ore * 1/ with crushing ore * .5
sulfuric acid * 20 or sulfur * 2

output:
battery * 1
so based on those numbers i cant see any reason to use the pycp battery recipe as its just overall more expensive and needs more tech to unlock then vanilla version. like 3 extra techs after sulfur vs vanilla 1 tech.

now maybe somebody else has a reason for why its not but i dont so i suggest some tweaks to bring them closer together

pycp battery:
cut copper ore in half to 30 ore/ 5 ore per battery
sulfur down to 15/ 2.5 per battery

vanilla battery
increase iron plate to 10/ with crushing thats 5 ore per battery
increase copper plate to 10/ with crushing thats 5 ore per battery

but idk those are just my thoughts on it
The only recipe I have to make batteries that uses steel and chromium uses the following
1 Steel plate
20 Sulfer
1 Chromium
2 Rayon
60 Sodium Hydroxide
2 Lead plate
Yields 6 batteries

The other 3 are as follows
1 Copper plate
2 Rayon
1 Zinc Plate
20 Sulfuric acid
Yields 1 battery

2 Rayon
2 Glass
6 Lead Plate
50 Sulfuric acid
Yields 2 batteries

5 Coke
2 Rayon
5 Pyrite
4 Lead Plate
50 Sulfuric acid
Yields 2 batteries
besides the last one all are viable tho if one uses pyHT they tend to use the NaOH one because it uses the least rayon
without pyHT the Cu-Zn should be the best on i think

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Re: pY Coal Processing - Discussion

Post by Amyclas » Tue Jul 02, 2019 9:24 am

That mod portal link links to a link farming ad site. I logged in just to call you out on it.

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Re: pY Coal Processing - Discussion

Post by the_ave » Tue Jul 02, 2019 10:33 am

What mod portal link?!

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Re: pY Coal Processing - Discussion

Post by kingarthur » Tue Jul 02, 2019 7:14 pm

On the OP theres a link

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Re: pY Coal Processing - Discussion

Post by Crypt0n » Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:31 am

Were the anno 2205 GT the inspiration for the destructive distillation column? :)
https://annoseries.fandom.com/wiki/Geot ... rbines.png

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Re: pY Coal Processing - Discussion

Post by pyanodon » Mon Jul 22, 2019 11:44 am

Crypt0n wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:31 am
Were the anno 2205 GT the inspiration for the destructive distillation column? :)
Lots of the stuff i have in my mods had inspiration from several games, anno included. When you wanna do something, we got inspiraton from the bests.
pY Coal processing mod
Discord: Pyanodon #5791

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Re: pY Coal Processing - Discussion

Post by liwers » Tue Jul 23, 2019 5:48 pm

Hi Pyanodon,

Some funny things happened through out these days in our Community chatroom, Kitty wasn't available at that moment, kinda busy, but after multi-turns of chatroom silenced by the core players, Kitty started to be curious about what cause them to had such heated discussion..

After a series of long-long-chat-record-cheking, Kitty see the problem was:

The 60℃ Steam.. :shock:

In the current version, this 60℃ Steam cannot be used for electric generating, so can only be used to cool down to water by Cooling Towers, or, by a more convenient way, vantilated by the Tailing Ponds..

However, a sufficient and as free resource in game, is the water: you don't even need electricity to get water, so what's the meaning of save low-temperture steam to come back to water, not to mention you need Cooling Towers whom consume electricity..? :roll:

So, there were two oppsite divisions in our chatroom, their arguement show as below:
1. The Cooling Towers are really meet a low sense of presense, make to ensure the more often use of Cooling Towers, a forbidden use of Tailing Ponds to vantilate Steam out to the air is needed;
2. What players choose to do is their freedom, whether you want to waste the low-temp Steam, or to save them as part of circulatory system, are all should be supported..

You see, there is a paradox here: if you support the 2nd opinion, the truth is an insufficient use of Cooling Towers nowadays, just as the 1st opinion claimed; but to support the 1st one, which will reduce the playing ways the players can have, and it is true that THIS astrict players' freedom of choices..

Cut down the ways we can play is an inapproptiate solution, however, Kitty don't support the 1st opinion, either. What Kitty propose is to jump out of the paradox: the Cooling Towers' lack of a sense of presense, is because the certain usage and certain scenario, which isn't the players' fault; so why don't we focus on the reuse of the low-temp Steam instead..? :?:

Kitty have 4 solutions:
1. Add a Sophisticated Heat Accumulator to pyFE, allowing to use Fuel Rod MK01, to heat up the low-temp Steam directly to 500℃, which means can be used in Turbine Generators; (unlock by blue packs)
2. Add a Wind-up Vapourising Complex to pyIndustry, it collects low-temp Steam, and ouput 165℃ Steam each time it is filled, but only output half of the amout of input; (unlock by green packs)
3. Add a Secondary Heat Exchanger to pyPH, it consumes Hot Air to heat up the low-temp Steam, but in this process, it will create a massive pollution amout by using the same mechanism used on Tailing Ponds; (unlock by red packs)
4. Add an Alternative Burner (it named to be as an alternative solution :P ) to the pyCP, it consumes certain fuels, for example, crushed coal/coarse coal, not only to heat the low-temp Steam to 165℃, but also enlarge the usage of Raw Coal; (unlock by red packs)

These will make the low-temp Steam to be more useful in electricity generating.. :) (then waste to the air)

Meow..!
This is Liwers 'Kitty' Loor, a extremly very cute kitty.. Meow..! :P

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Re: pY Coal Processing - Discussion

Post by otakushowboat » Tue Jul 23, 2019 6:31 pm

Using cooling towers allows you to remove the water input to the system once it's been given an initial supply by looping the water output from the cooling towers back to the buildings using water and making 60 C steam. Once you've done that, you don't need to worry about feeding water into that system ever again (or at least until you expand it).

This saves on the total amount of water pipes and pumps needed to feed your factory. It's more for convenience than anything else to reduce the amount of water pipes you need to supply these systems that make 60 C steam. Water may be free, but you still have the pipe logistics to worry about when you need a lot of it. Cooling towers help to aleviate this.

There is a similar water cycle with pressured water in the production of coalbed gas. That system requires no additional water input once it's been given enough to get going.

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Re: pY Coal Processing - Discussion

Post by pyanodon » Tue Jul 23, 2019 7:10 pm

1 - Already exist a py heat exchanger in game can heat up steam to 500C and use it in energy generation already in blue or green science, i dont remember. Sometimes people just dont play the game enough to discover it and complain for things that already exist.

The idea of use hot air to re heat the steam is good, i may add it in the same heat exchanger.
pY Coal processing mod
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Re: pY Coal Processing - Discussion

Post by mathiaszealot » Tue Jul 23, 2019 10:16 pm

liwers wrote:
Tue Jul 23, 2019 5:48 pm
In the current version, this 60℃ Steam cannot be used for electric generating, so can only be used to cool down to water by Cooling Towers, or, by a more convenient way, vantilated by the Tailing Ponds..

However, a sufficient and as free resource in game, is the water: you don't even need electricity to get water, so what's the meaning of save low-temperture steam to come back to water, not to mention you need Cooling Towers whom consume electricity..?
According to one factory where I ran the steam from my Power Houses straight to Tailing ponds, that's a fast way to make a very large amount of pollution, irritate the all the biters, and make big biters before you've got decent defense. Just a consideration if you're like me and leave them enabled :oops:

The next attempt I put it back into a cooling tower.

Would be neat to have a few other options for it, though. Even just a step up boiler that could take it from 60 to 165 to feed engines at the appropriate fuel savings would be great.

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Re: pY Coal Processing - Discussion

Post by BlueTemplar » Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:17 am

Oh, right, since "steam" doesn't have "water" in its name, it causes pollution when venting it through Tailings Ponds? :lol:

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