NauvisDay - Gaia's Revenge, and your attempt to adapt to it

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Re: NauvisDay - Gaia's Revenge, and your attempt to adapt to it

Post by Light »

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Forget it. I'll just make the changes myself and deny updates... again.

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Re: NauvisDay - Gaia's Revenge, and your attempt to adapt to it

Post by MakeItGraphic »

Love this mod, compensates for the whole finite water debate imo, will it be maintained for .17?

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Re: NauvisDay - Gaia's Revenge, and your attempt to adapt to it

Post by Reika »

makeitgraphic18 wrote: ↑
Mon Apr 01, 2019 8:24 pm
Love this mod, compensates for the whole finite water debate imo, will it be maintained for .17?
Yes, but the 0.17 update is more involved for a mod of this size.
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Re: NauvisDay - Gaia's Revenge, and your attempt to adapt to it

Post by geostar1024 »

Reika wrote: ↑
Tue Oct 23, 2018 12:22 am
I implemented pollution-specific deaerosolization recipes, and it works amazingly. They deaeros can no longer bring pollution to zero - the four tiers bottom out around 1500, 1000, 400, and 100 - and it finally means sludge from nothing is no longer possible.

Here is the efficiency curve I went with:

Code: Select all

	{0, 0},
	{1000, 0.05},
	{2500, 0.2},
	{4000, 0.5},
	{10000, 0.8},
	{25000, 1},
	{40000, 1.5},
	{100000, 2.5}
I just finally reinstalled after the 0.17 update, and am just now experiencing this change. . . and I find it rather less forgiving than previously (which maybe is the point?). The deaeros are now useless until you're producing quite a bit of pollution, at which point the evolution factor is going up quite quickly. Certainly, there seems to be no way to stabilize things below 0.5, even with tier 4 deaeros. Am I missing something, or is that just how things are intended to be?

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Re: NauvisDay - Gaia's Revenge, and your attempt to adapt to it

Post by Reika »

geostar1024 wrote: ↑
Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:16 am
Reika wrote: ↑
Tue Oct 23, 2018 12:22 am
I implemented pollution-specific deaerosolization recipes, and it works amazingly. They deaeros can no longer bring pollution to zero - the four tiers bottom out around 1500, 1000, 400, and 100 - and it finally means sludge from nothing is no longer possible.

Here is the efficiency curve I went with:

Code: Select all

	{0, 0},
	{1000, 0.05},
	{2500, 0.2},
	{4000, 0.5},
	{10000, 0.8},
	{25000, 1},
	{40000, 1.5},
	{100000, 2.5}
I just finally reinstalled after the 0.17 update, and am just now experiencing this change. . . and I find it rather less forgiving than previously (which maybe is the point?). The deaeros are now useless until you're producing quite a bit of pollution, at which point the evolution factor is going up quite quickly. Certainly, there seems to be no way to stabilize things below 0.5, even with tier 4 deaeros. Am I missing something, or is that just how things are intended to be?
No amount of deaeros will prevent evo from pollution; no matter how powerful their cleanup, pollution emission will still occur at the same rate, and thus the evolution factor will be influenced at the same rate. This has always been the case. To prevent evolution from pollution, you would need to stop pollution before it is even created, not just clean it up after it is.
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Re: NauvisDay - Gaia's Revenge, and your attempt to adapt to it

Post by geostar1024 »

Reika wrote: ↑
Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:32 am
geostar1024 wrote: ↑
Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:16 am
Reika wrote: ↑
Tue Oct 23, 2018 12:22 am
I implemented pollution-specific deaerosolization recipes, and it works amazingly. They deaeros can no longer bring pollution to zero - the four tiers bottom out around 1500, 1000, 400, and 100 - and it finally means sludge from nothing is no longer possible.

Here is the efficiency curve I went with:

Code: Select all

	{0, 0},
	{1000, 0.05},
	{2500, 0.2},
	{4000, 0.5},
	{10000, 0.8},
	{25000, 1},
	{40000, 1.5},
	{100000, 2.5}
I just finally reinstalled after the 0.17 update, and am just now experiencing this change. . . and I find it rather less forgiving than previously (which maybe is the point?). The deaeros are now useless until you're producing quite a bit of pollution, at which point the evolution factor is going up quite quickly. Certainly, there seems to be no way to stabilize things below 0.5, even with tier 4 deaeros. Am I missing something, or is that just how things are intended to be?
No amount of deaeros will prevent evo from pollution; no matter how powerful their cleanup, pollution emission will still occur at the same rate, and thus the evolution factor will be influenced at the same rate. This has always been the case. To prevent evolution from pollution, you would need to stop pollution before it is even created, not just clean it up after it is.
Ah, right, thanks. For some reason, I was conflating the the evolution factor reduction due to time with pollution removal.

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Re: NauvisDay - Gaia's Revenge, and your attempt to adapt to it

Post by doktorstick »

Reika wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:05 pm
Light wrote: ↑
Sun Mar 24, 2019 6:41 am
I've already suggested adding a toggle to disable any evolution changes from occurring or disabling that function while Pitch Black is installed.

Pitch Black operates on the principle of increasing and decreasing evolution based on time of day or random events. It needs full control over evolution values to accomplish what it's designed to do. Nauvis needs to leave evolution alone to avoid tripping over Pitch Black, which is why I made that request so the two mods can work together instead of fighting each other for control. Otherwise it's a 'one or the other' situation and that's completely unnecessary.
That is still a "one or the other" situation, just one wher NVDay is making sure it is always the other. Simply disabling those breaks NVDay.
I don't have skin in the game since I don't use Pitch Black, but maybe a compromise is for NVDay to add a remote API that adds a bonus to NVDay's internal evolution factor. In this way, at night, Pitch Black can invoke remote.call("nvday.evo.bonus", 10000) and in the day remote.call("nvday.evo.bonus", 0). Of course, it shouldn't modify NVDay's raw evolution factor; hence the "bonus".
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Re: NauvisDay - Gaia's Revenge, and your attempt to adapt to it

Post by Mernom »

Is it normal that my evo gets to 0.8 before I leave the burner phase? Using AAI industry, so getting to power is a lot slower.

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Re: NauvisDay - Gaia's Revenge, and your attempt to adapt to it

Post by doktorstick »

I've started a 0.17 NDay /w Rampant (10 levels / 10 variations) and I was wipe last night by a wave that had medium/titan fire spitters. The pollution overlay is a very, very light pink; I had to do a double-take to even see it. My power use is about 3MW (two of which are radars). The only research I've done is bullets and turret upgrades plus walls (besides the base automation, logistics, and optics). Game time ~80 minutes.

Code: Select all

/evolution
Evolution factor: 0.8731. (Time -2%) (Pollution 102%) (Spawner kills 0%).
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Re: NauvisDay - Gaia's Revenge, and your attempt to adapt to it

Post by Reika »

doktorstick wrote: ↑
Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:38 pm
I don't have skin in the game since I don't use Pitch Black, but maybe a compromise is for NVDay to add a remote API that adds a bonus to NVDay's internal evolution factor. In this way, at night, Pitch Black can invoke remote.call("nvday.evo.bonus", 10000) and in the day remote.call("nvday.evo.bonus", 0). Of course, it shouldn't modify NVDay's raw evolution factor; hence the "bonus".
That is not how evolution factor works; it is a simple number that mods/scripts can modify. Any mod can increase it or decrease it at will, as well as change the values the base game uses to manipulate it (ie change how much is added or subtracted based on certain events), which NVDay does. The original poster was saying that this prevents PB from getting its day/night up/down cycle as intended, and the only way for me to prevent that conflict is to remove my evo manipulation entirely. I will not do that, even as an option, as that a core part of what the mod is.
doktorstick wrote: ↑
Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:39 pm
I've started a 0.17 NDay /w Rampant (10 levels / 10 variations) and I was wipe last night by a wave that had medium/titan fire spitters. The pollution overlay is a very, very light pink; I had to do a double-take to even see it. My power use is about 3MW (two of which are radars). The only research I've done is bullets and turret upgrades plus walls (besides the base automation, logistics, and optics). Game time ~80 minutes.
That sounds like a minimal amount of pollution, which should not cause to the evolution levels you describe.
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Re: NauvisDay - Gaia's Revenge, and your attempt to adapt to it

Post by doktorstick »

Thanks for the explanation re: evolution factor.
Reika wrote: ↑
Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:06 pm
doktorstick wrote: ↑
Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:39 pm
I've started a 0.17 NDay /w Rampant (10 levels / 10 variations) and I was wipe last night by a wave that had medium/titan fire spitters. The pollution overlay is a very, very light pink; I had to do a double-take to even see it. My power use is about 3MW (two of which are radars). The only research I've done is bullets and turret upgrades plus walls (besides the base automation, logistics, and optics). Game time ~80 minutes.
That sounds like a minimal amount of pollution, which should not cause to the evolution levels you describe.
I've opened a bug on github w/ an attached savegame: https://github.com/ReikaKalseki/Reika_F ... issues/177
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Re: NauvisDay - Gaia's Revenge, and your attempt to adapt to it

Post by SuicideJunkie »

Reika wrote: ↑
Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:06 pm
That is not how evolution factor works; it is a simple number that mods/scripts can modify. Any mod can increase it or decrease it at will, as well as change the values the base game uses to manipulate it (ie change how much is added or subtracted based on certain events), which NVDay does. The original poster was saying that this prevents PB from getting its day/night up/down cycle as intended, and the only way for me to prevent that conflict is to remove my evo manipulation entirely. I will not do that, even as an option, as that a core part of what the mod is.
I think the suggestion is to have a way of sharing control, possibly with a shared dependency to mediate the demands.
That bit about remote.call("nvday.evo.bonus", 10000) for example.

There's only so much you can do when you're trying to change the same things, but surely NVDay could work fine with another mod that simply wants quadruple evolution factor at night, and zero evo factor during the day, for example.
You'd just need (the mediator mod) to track the base evo factor separately so it isn't lost when you apply a -100% temporary buff while the sun is up.
Or recalculate the base value based on total pollution, total time, and total kills before applying the multipliers each time.

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Re: NauvisDay - Gaia's Revenge, and your attempt to adapt to it

Post by MakeItGraphic »

Can't wait for an update, this mod is great with Global Warming, and BioIndustries. .17 didn't seem to last very long, never had a chance even to install your last update, but thank you for all the hard work!

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Re: NauvisDay - Gaia's Revenge, and your attempt to adapt to it

Post by MakeItGraphic »

Noticed a few issues when playing on .17

- Biter Evolution wasn't updating. (Playing with rampant)

Ended up editing the functions.lua file to fix this, went from 0 to 39.2% pretty fast and started to receive biter attacks finally.

- Pollution does not show on MapView
Pollution_MAPVIEW001.png
Pollution_MAPVIEW001.png (132.79 KiB) Viewed 1319 times
DEBUG:
Pollution_MAPVIEW002.png
Pollution_MAPVIEW002.png (186.2 KiB) Viewed 1319 times
- Polluted Water

In .16 I used to see these effects happen annoyingly often, however in the .17 update I have yet to even encounter the issue.

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Re: NauvisDay - Gaia's Revenge, and your attempt to adapt to it

Post by Reika »

Rampant breaks the evo modification, and the pollution is not showing because it is too low; the "dynamic range" is greatly expanded.
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[0.17] possible upgrade and Merged Mod pack?

Post by i_i »

Failed to load mods: _ _ NauvisDay_ _/data-final-

fixes:lua:80: attempt to index field 'result' (a nil value)

stack traceback:
_ _NauvisDay_ _/data-final-fixes.luaL80: in main chunk


Also include conditions that make sense
https://mods.factorio.com/mod/Evo
https://mods.factorio.com/mod/NextGenEvolution

also any conflicts or add masks to
https://mods.factorio.com/mod/biter_factions

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Re: NauvisDay - Gaia's Revenge, and your attempt to adapt to it

Post by Eylrid »

1.18.3 cranked the pollution way up. Mining drills went from 60/min to 900/min.

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Re: NauvisDay - Gaia's Revenge, and your attempt to adapt to it

Post by Reika »

Eylrid wrote: ↑
Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:25 pm
1.18.3 cranked the pollution way up. Mining drills went from 60/min to 900/min.
I know. I had to massively rebalance everything to more match the pre-0.17 behavior.
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Re: NauvisDay - Gaia's Revenge, and your attempt to adapt to it

Post by Chicken80s »

Hi everyone !

I had a problem with a gas-powered boiler that was not working, if that can help me I put the links of the discussion which allowed me to solve this problem :)

https://steamcommunity.com/app/427520/d ... 017818229/
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problem ND.PNG
problem ND.PNG (1.83 MiB) Viewed 968 times

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Re: NauvisDay - Gaia's Revenge, and your attempt to adapt to it

Post by Reika »

Chicken80s wrote: ↑
Wed Jun 17, 2020 6:34 pm
Hi everyone !

I had a problem with a gas-powered boiler that was not working, if that can help me I put the links of the discussion which allowed me to solve this problem :)

https://steamcommunity.com/app/427520/d ... 017818229/
Fel is right as to the root cause but completely wrong as to the reasons, with the real ones being that I thought the fluid already had a fuel value, and in testing it did, but unknown to me that was a result of a completely different mod (and not any of Bob's).
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