Feature request: leave on circuit condition + time passed

[mrvn]

Sometimes I take goods from a station while a train is in transit. Or a station is unbalanced. In both cases loading the blocks and the train sits there for a long time. Usually till it is full as goods come in faster than the inactivity timeout. But usually too long for the overall timeout.

I think it would help to change the train leaving condition to include:
- time passed X (where X is something well below the overall timeout)
- circuit condition G=1

The first would prevent trains from running into the timeout when loading take too long but never fully stops. The second would allow adding combinators to send a train away prematurely when it can't be loaded fully.

[Shia]

The first would prevent trains from running into the timeout when loading take too long...

Why not waiting until there are enough goods? Or stop the transport at some way (before the buffer) to not have a very slow loading. (At least, there is no benefit of having a train waiting at a station if it is not leaving earlier than a train arriving later. (Or maybe I did not get the point of this)

[mrvn]

The first would prevent trains from running into the timeout when loading take too long...

Why not waiting until there are enough goods? Or stop the transport at some way (before the buffer) to not have a very slow loading. (At least, there is no benefit of having a train waiting at a station if it is not leaving earlier than a train arriving later. (Or maybe I did not get the point of this)

For example: At some point there were enough goods so LTN scheduled a train. Before it arrives I run past the station in need of iron plates and grab 1000 of them. So when the train arrives to load 8000 iron plates only 7241 are available. So the train stays at the station waiting for 8000 iron plates. Then LTN figures the train was lost due to timeout and sends a second, which queues up after the first and blocks traffic. So other trains get blocked and more timeouts ensure. Quickly everything stops.

Actually first time I run into the timeout the problem was simply that I had inserters (yellow) doing the loading and 8000 iron plates take simply too long to load with them. Would have been better for the train to leave half filled after 3 minutes than to timeout. A time based limit to loading instead of inactivity would prevent the train running into the timeout in both cases.

[Optera]

Use a properly balanced loader and don't take out items when you know your station is low on plates.

LTN already adds a configurable stop timeout (default 2min) which is way below the also configurable delivery timeout.

[mrvn]

But the timeout is for inactivity, not time passed. So as long as a new iron plate arrives and get loaded every 1 minute 59 seconds the train does not leave.

I'm suggesting to change that from inactivity to time passed. It would make LTN more robust.

[Shia]

I suggest, that if you "cheat" on LTN, you also should have the time to send trains back to the depot (if not loaded anything) or directly to the next stop. The yellow light should tell you to not touch anything there (pretty obvious to my eye).

To add a feature for every possible way players can mess with LTN would lead to an endless cycle.

Just keep in mind:
green: do what you want
yellow: do not touch it

Or add a buffer outside of the LTN which fills up first (and grab whatever you want there)

[Optera]

But the timeout is for inactivity, not time passed. So as long as a new iron plate arrives and get loaded every 1 minute 59 seconds the train does not leave.

I'm suggesting to change that from inactivity to time passed. It would make LTN more robust.

Makes sense. When I get to it I'll run tests on how long 6 inserters take to load a wagon with green circuits and set the resulting time as new default time out.

I suggest, that if you "cheat" on LTN, you also should have the time to send trains back to the depot (if not loaded anything) or directly to the next stop. The yellow light should tell you to not touch anything there (pretty obvious to my eye).

To add a feature for every possible way players can mess with LTN would lead to an endless cycle.

Just keep in mind:
green: do what you want
yellow: do not touch it

Or add a buffer outside of the LTN which fills up first (and grab whatever you want there)

Exactly, yellow means reserved don't mess with the inventory.

[mrvn]

But the timeout is for inactivity, not time passed. So as long as a new iron plate arrives and get loaded every 1 minute 59 seconds the train does not leave.

I'm suggesting to change that from inactivity to time passed. It would make LTN more robust.

Makes sense. When I get to it I'll run tests on how long 6 inserters take to load a wagon with green circuits and set the resulting time as new default time out.

What speaks against changing the train schedule from inactivity to time passed? You already have that in the schedule as a safety measure against stuck trains. It's just not safe enough.

[Optera]

But the timeout is for inactivity, not time passed. So as long as a new iron plate arrives and get loaded every 1 minute 59 seconds the train does not leave.

I'm suggesting to change that from inactivity to time passed. It would make LTN more robust.

Makes sense. When I get to it I'll run tests on how long 6 inserters take to load a wagon with green circuits and set the resulting time as new default time out.

What speaks against changing the train schedule from inactivity to time passed? You already have that in the schedule as a safety measure against stuck trains. It's just not safe enough.

If i set default station time out shorter than what 6 yellow inserters can manage you are among the first to cry that trains leave too early.

[Shia]

Looking at other requests, it may be simple to skip this one.

Simply add the possibility (with OR) to force-leave a station by signal if sent to train (the station itself).

Then a simple setup would be (for iron plates) with a decider combinator to check if "iron plates = 0" then send signal... lets say "L 1" .
I'm sure that this way a lot of other problems also could be solved.

At least:

...a safety measure against stuck trains...

is already there.

[mrvn]

But the timeout is for inactivity, not time passed. So as long as a new iron plate arrives and get loaded every 1 minute 59 seconds the train does not leave.

I'm suggesting to change that from inactivity to time passed. It would make LTN more robust.

Makes sense. When I get to it I'll run tests on how long 6 inserters take to load a wagon with green circuits and set the resulting time as new default time out.

What speaks against changing the train schedule from inactivity to time passed? You already have that in the schedule as a safety measure against stuck trains. It's just not safe enough.

If i set default station time out shorter than what 6 yellow inserters can manage you are among the first to cry that trains leave too early.

And you would tell me to simply change the timeout in the config. I already did that because LTN schedules a second train while the previous is still being loaded. The train leaving would be an improvement to more and more trains getting scheduled just because yellow inserters are slow.

Looking at other requests, it may be simple to skip this one.

Simply add the possibility (with OR) to force-leave a station by signal if sent to train (the station itself).

That's what I requested. It's even in the topic.

[Optera]

And you would tell me to simply change the timeout in the config. I already did that because LTN schedules a second train while the previous is still being loaded. The train leaving would be an improvement to more and more trains getting scheduled just because yellow inserters are slow.

Configs are so 0.14
You can change the timeouts on per save basis during game in mod settings.

[mrvn]

And you would tell me to simply change the timeout in the config. I already did that because LTN schedules a second train while the previous is still being loaded. The train leaving would be an improvement to more and more trains getting scheduled just because yellow inserters are slow.

Configs are so 0.14
You can change the timeouts on per save basis during game in mod settings.

I even changed it mid game as I got more and better inserters. Long gone is the time of yellow inserters without bonus for LTN stations. Changing to fast inserters and configuring a smaller angle of movement once researched (thanks adjustable inserters) gives more than 20 fold speed up. You really do notice that.