Stations & other LTN based designs

Adds new train stops forming a highly configurable logistic network.

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Optera
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Re: Stations & other LTN based designs

Post by Optera »

Evilness wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 6:15 pm
So, I downloaded the map, went the extra mile and removed all other mods, just to prove you wrong. Surprise, surprise, I was right and you were wrong.

First a picture of demo unloading station, it does not output expected train content, like I said.
Image
The train contains iron ore, the schedule says iron ore == 0 so expected content is nothing.
Evilness wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 6:15 pm
Next the "filtering" functionality of demo filtered unloading station. I put some random items in the train to see if they will unload. And indeed as I said:
Evilness wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 12:50 pm
Lets say what you propose is true. Expected inventory has to be higher than actual available inventory in the train (and it is). So when a train comes it requests +8.2k copper ore, with 8k space.
8.2k-8k=200, positive number so filter is set and train loads fully.
Next comes unloading
Current inventory-expected inventory= 8k-8.2k=-200, so the train will never unload any copper. Note that it will unload anthing it is not expectig because the filter will be set by items in the train.
"Wrong" items unloaded:
Image
  • When did you put the items in the train?
    LTNs combinator only updates when a train enters the station.
  • The demo still contains v1 requester designs.
    I never bothered updating them as the provider ensures there's no false cargo.
    If you had read the description of v2 requesters you'd know train inventory signals from the stop reach inserters a few ticks sooner than the signal path from LTN output through the inverter resulting in incorrect item unloading.
Evilness wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 6:15 pm
I hate to bring it to you,
but you didn't notice that this design doesn't work for two years.
Drop the attitude if you want assistance.

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Re: Stations & other LTN based designs

Post by Evilness »

Optera wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:22 am
The train contains iron ore, the schedule says iron ore == 0 so expected content is nothing.
Indeed, the station is unloading, so the schedule is expecting iron ore to be unloaded, thus go to 0. Perhaps that is why the station combinator does not output iron ore as positive number. Again I get no train content information in my unloading stations, nor does this information get produced in the demo map.
Optera wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:22 am
When did you put the items in the train?
I put items in the train after it parked, so this isn't really realistic behavior. Of course the correct way to test would be to put items in the train before it parks.
However, since the unloading station combinator does not output expected content I don't see how it would make a difference.
I already explained my issue with the setup before, but you never addressed it. So again, the issue is:
  • Your requester setup calculates current train content-expected train content and sets filter with the result
  • Train contents are: 7k copper ore and 1k iron ore
  • Expected content is 8k copper ore (if it actually works)
  • Result is: -1k copper ore and 1k iron ore
  • Filter is set to iron ore and only iron ore gets unloaded which is the wrong item
Optera wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:22 am
LTNs combinator only updates when a train enters the station.
[*]The demo still contains v1 requester designs.
I never bothered updating them as the provider ensures there's no false cargo.
If you had read the description of v2 requesters you'd know train inventory signals from the stop reach inserters a few ticks sooner than the signal path from LTN output through the inverter resulting in incorrect item unloading.
As explained previously this is not relevant here as not even the basic functionality works.

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Re: Stations & other LTN based designs

Post by Optera »

Evilness wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:58 am
I already explained my issue with the setup before, but you never addressed it. So again, the issue is:
  • Your requester setup calculates current train content-expected train content and sets filter with the result
  • Train contents are: 7k copper ore and 1k iron ore
  • Expected content is 8k copper ore (if it actually works)
No, expected is 0 copper ore and 1k iron ore
Expected is always AFTER un-loading is completed.

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Re: Stations & other LTN based designs

Post by Evilness »

Optera wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 11:12 am
Evilness wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:58 am
I already explained my issue with the setup before, but you never addressed it. So again, the issue is:
  • Your requester setup calculates current train content-expected train content and sets filter with the result
  • Train contents are: 7k copper ore and 1k iron ore
  • Expected content is 8k copper ore (if it actually works)
No, expected is 0 copper ore and 1k iron ore
Expected is always AFTER un-loading is completed.
Ah, yes that was the missing information here. Went back, tested it again and it works this way.
Seems I was wrong after all. Kudos to you.

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Re: Logistic Network to LTN stop filter

Post by bobdabuilda »

Optera wrote:
Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:06 am
Hooking Logistic Network directly to LTN stops has some side effects due to how logistic network reads its contents.
1) Logistic network doesn't show items in transit as available potentially causing another delivery in a bot unloading station design.
2) If bots try to pick up more than available the number becomes negative, which is LTN's trigger for requesting this amount.

To combat these effects I put together this signal filter.

2017-06-30 Logistic Filter.jpg
Green sets the amounts of desired items as usual for LTN with negative sign.
Red (optional) filters signals entirely.

Note:
When used with LTN stops it will require an additional cc setting LTN parameters.
Hi Optera - loving your mod, and getting a bit more serious in my base (currently working on 3k SPM) now, and working on setting up some bot-based train stations. However, I've been having trouble getting the stations to work how I'd like them to due to issues reading the contents.

Reading the above, it SEEMS to be what I am after, but I'm not too sure about the final note re: needing an additional CC to use it with an LTN station - not too sure why you would provide an example with a non-LTN station, considering the examples are being provided in demonstration of LTN??

Anyways, I've been trying to work out how to get it set up, but just can't wrap my head around how to incorporate that last CC into the mix. Any chance you can provide a better example of a requestor station, using an LTN station and some active provider boxes, perhaps??

Cheers,
bob.

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Re: Stations & other LTN based designs

Post by Optera »

You connect the logistic filter like this:

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Re: Stations & other LTN based designs

Post by bobdabuilda »

Thanks for the response :)

I was totally overthinking it and should have just tried it, instead of trying to think my way through it lol. Didn't even consider that I literally just needed to hook it all up to the LTN station via a CC for the LTN-specific settings and it'd do the rest...

Thanks again for the info :)

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