(SPOILERS!) Space Exploration 0.6.101 / 1,358 spm / mining 867 / 11.7k hours

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(SPOILERS!) Space Exploration 0.6.101 / 1,358 spm / mining 867 / 11.7k hours

Post by spiral_power »

Old subject: (SPOILERS!) Space Exploration 0.5 / 1,360 spm / mining 616 / 6.7k hours


This thread contains spoilers. If you don't like spoilers, don't look at it.


This is the megabase of Space Exploration, biggest and longest operation ( will continue ) .
Two victory conditions have already been achieved.
0.6 has already been released and this save will be migrated in the fall. And the operation will be kept running.

Settings
  • 1.1.61 stable & Space Exploration 0.5.116 with recommended mods
  • YES: Normal playthrough is continued as is.
  • NO: cheaty operations ( editor mode etc ), mods ( any ! ), settings ( all default )
Records
  • 1,360 spm mining research, tested long enough. This time I set a minimum of 250 hours.
  • UPS 50-55 on my PC ( Ryzen 2700X/DDR4 16GB 2666MHz)
  • Totally running 6.7k hours in game time
  • mining 616, consume 56.16M / day naq, Higher mining efficiency reduces the frequency of naq miner maintenance
  • using 1,584 arcospheres for DSS cards ( I think that would be very efficient )
Points
  • The system is made to be UPS-friendly to some extent. Because there is also a balance with scalability and operation and maintenance, it is not made to be completely monolithic.
  • Naturally all modules are of the highest rank ( tier 9 ) except for a few minor ones.
  • 1,360 spm is a perfect fit; just 4,3,2,1 Space Manufactories are needed to create DSS 4,3,2,1 at top speed. The assembly machines required for recipes that use arcospheres are also generally just fine. On the other hand, 1,360 spm is achieved only if DSS production does not stop at all, making it somewhat vulnerable to changes and minor failures. Someone more rigorous than I ( I doubt it exists ) might keep it to about 1,260 spm, reducing vulnerability even more. Conversely, I could argue 1.4k spm on the basis of the rounded up notation.
  • Nauvis is connected by a train network, with trains coming and going between Nauvis and Norbit via spaceship elevators.
  • Fragments are mined vita, crude, cryo ( hybrid ). Iron, copper etc. are generated from universal fragments. Uran, vulc, beryl, holm, irid, cryo ( hybrid ) are obtained by Matter fusion.
  • I have not seen anyone else using Matter fusion other than myself. This is the SE standard recipe for producing matter using a large facility, surplus stones and other materials, and a lot of power. Norbit is capable of providing 2TW ( 262k naq solar panels ) of power.
  • The only finite resource is naq. I have made the system virtually limitless by trim/recreate chunks. This can be done with standard SE functions. I mine the right first, and when I am almost done mining, I gradually shift to the left, while trimming the right when I am done shifting. When I am about to exhaust the left side, I recreate the patch on the right side. And so on and so forth. At this point, the initial mining of the right is almost finished, and the left is becoming the main focus.
  • Some arolinks are used to transport fragments and naq related items between surfaces.
  • Setting up DSS recipes using arcospheres are where the skill comes in. I used mathematics to find the solution of which and how many times to do which, and then implemented that solution to match the factorio/SE system.
  • A spaceship that collects interstellar travel data is not completely safe. There may be an accident every hundreds to thousands of hours or so. This is a tradeoff between the speed of the spaceship and the speed at which the card is acquired.
  • Train network is not complete. It may deadlock once every hundreds to thousands of hours or so. I will be migrating to 0.6 in the near future, so I will not be making any more improvements in its current state, which is optimized for 0.5.
You can download full images of my factory. FactorioMaps 3.2GB
However, save will not be distributed. Especially about arcospheres, because I do not want to disclose advanced architectural details.
You can see some archives and also ask questions if I am on live twitch. Not that often.
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Re: Space Exploration 0.5 / 1,360 spm / mining 616 / 6.7k hours

Post by spiral_power »

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Re: Space Exploration 0.5 / 1,360 spm / mining 616 / 6.7k hours

Post by spiral_power »

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Re: Space Exploration 0.5 / 1,360 spm / mining 616 / 6.7k hours

Post by spiral_power »

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Re: Space Exploration 0.5 / 1,360 spm / mining 616 / 6.7k hours

Post by ptx0 »

very nice! you'll have to post another update when you rebuild all of the production lines for Space Exploration 0.6

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Re: Space Exploration 0.5 / 1,360 spm / mining 616 / 6.7k hours

Post by spiral_power »

Thank you.
I will update mine after 0.6 has been tested by many people to some extent.

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Re: Space Exploration 0.5 / 1,360 spm / mining 616 / 6.7k hours

Post by rekales »

Isn't that an excessive amounts of warehouses and combinators. wouldn't that affect performance by a lot?

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Re: Space Exploration 0.5 / 1,360 spm / mining 616 / 6.7k hours

Post by spiral_power »

Isn't that an excessive amounts of warehouses and combinators. wouldn't that affect performance by a lot?
6x6 chests are easier to exchange items with trains than regular 1x1 chests, also be treated as a super-fast belt, and they also require some buffer to maintain stable operation and high performance.
Circuits are used only as needed. Control by various circuits should be necessary to achieve stable operation and high performance.

I have not done an exact comparison, but I don't think it is a bad choice.
If someone builds a STABLE SE factory with a completely different approach than mine under the same conditions, we might be able to compare performance.
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Re: Space Exploration 0.5 / 1,360 spm / mining 616 / 6.7k hours

Post by ptx0 »

the game engine iterates over every slot in the chest from the end to the beginning when extracting and inputting items. huge warehouses have a major impact.

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Re: Space Exploration 0.5 / 1,360 spm / mining 616 / 6.7k hours

Post by spiral_power »

ptx0 wrote:
Sat Jul 30, 2022 11:11 pm
the game engine iterates over every slot in the chest from the end to the beginning when extracting and inputting items. huge warehouses have a major impact.
I kind of know about that. Do you think the impact is actually a few percent? Can you show that with data? I cannot.
I have adopted the current method because I think it is better for the overall optimization.

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Re: Space Exploration 0.5 / 1,360 spm / mining 616 / 6.7k hours

Post by rekales »

can you provide a screenshot of your entity-time-usage of nauvis and norbit? I'd like to check something.

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Re: Space Exploration 0.5 / 1,360 spm / mining 616 / 6.7k hours

Post by spiral_power »

can you provide a screenshot of your entity-time-usage of nauvis and norbit? I'd like to check something.
Is this ok?
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Re: Space Exploration 0.5 / 1,360 spm / mining 616 / 6.7k hours

Post by rekales »

spiral_power wrote:
Sun Jul 31, 2022 7:34 am
Is this ok?
yep

This is very interesting.
I wonder if most of those combinator time usage comes from the arcoball balancing.
Also, I think that inserter heavy time usage really did come from the warehouse but I'm still currently designing my base to compare that.
And also, holy mother of performance drain, they weren't kidding when they said to avoid pumps at as much as possible.

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Re: Space Exploration 0.5 / 1,360 spm / mining 616 / 6.7k hours

Post by rekales »

Finally did a more "scientific" approach for comparing the ups cost of warehouses.

hmmm, it's not that bad considering the benefits that you could get from using warehouses (ex. more inserters and machines can be fitted beside it).
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Re: Space Exploration 0.5 / 1,360 spm / mining 616 / 6.7k hours

Post by spiral_power »

Thanks for the survey.
Combinators in the DSS area had 2.8k.
Not much waste in the pumps. I always put pumps on the front and back of the tank, and insert them in the pipe chain to maintain speed only when necessary.
As for the inserters, station inserters are free at all times. I know that enabling it only when there are trains in the station makes it lighter, but I don't know how effective that is.

The image is too small to understand, what did you compare?
It would be nice if you could elaborate a bit more.

And, I did some research on the numbers.

nauvis:
inserters: 17k + 8.2k +0 ( 208 MW +124MW+0 MW )
combinators: 887+491
pump: 1.3k ( 2.1 MW )

norbit:
inserters: 19k + 13k + 304 ( 126 MW + 97.7MW + 188 kW )
combinators: 2.8k+2.0k
pump: 7.1k ( 8.3 MW )

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Re: Space Exploration 0.5 / 1,360 spm / mining 616 / 6.7k hours

Post by rekales »

spiral_power wrote:
Mon Aug 01, 2022 10:31 am
The image is too small to understand, what did you compare?
It would be nice if you could elaborate a bit more.
I used an equal amounts of miniloaders and storage entities (aka 2 hidden ultra fast inserters) in a benchmarking map to compare the inserter time usage of using strongboxes (96 slots) and warehouses (512 slots)

It is designed in a way that items will go through every storage entity.


Currently doing another test using chest -> inserter -> chest to further verify the result.

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Re: Space Exploration 0.5 / 1,360 spm / mining 616 / 6.7k hours

Post by spiral_power »

I used an equal amounts of miniloaders and storage entities (aka 2 hidden ultra fast inserters) in a benchmarking map to compare the inserter time usage of using strongboxes (96 slots) and warehouses (512 slots)
I see, So this is how long the process takes. 96 slots : 512 slots = 1:2

In addition, regarding the loading and unloading of items in the chest, when putting them in, the engine searches from the head to the open slot, and when taking them out, the engine searches from the tail to access the item in the first slot. The engine does not check all the slots every time and I believe there is some degree of optimization.
And performance is likely to vary depending on how many items are present in the chest and how many types of items are present.

I am not going to do a detailed performance investigation into it. Personally, I am ok with my factory being optimized to a certain degree.

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Re: Space Exploration 0.5 / 1,360 spm / mining 616 / 6.7k hours

Post by ptx0 »

rekales wrote:
Mon Aug 01, 2022 8:51 am
Finally did a more "scientific" approach for comparing the ups cost of warehouses.

hmmm, it's not that bad considering the benefits that you could get from using warehouses (ex. more inserters and machines can be fitted beside it).
this isn't a realistic test. the items that sleep or stay awake depend on how full the belts are. partially-filled belts, partially-filled warehouses. these are realistic to have. and they change the performance substantially.

you also won't get realistic results with everything in nearby chunks, without a whole lot of other entity types around for them to work from.

as it is, what you've executed looks like a micro-benchmark. it's helpful, but only to show that if you keep scaling the warehouse build up in a real map, you're going to have a bad time.

you can always just reduce the slot count of the containers.

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Re: Space Exploration 0.5 / 1,360 spm / mining 616 / 6.7k hours

Post by ptx0 »

rekales wrote:
Mon Aug 01, 2022 7:54 am
And also, holy mother of performance drain, they weren't kidding when they said to avoid pumps at as much as possible.
they have more than 7,000 pumps! it's not so bad that they take 1ms in this scale of things imo ;D

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Re: Space Exploration 0.5 / 1,360 spm / mining 616 / 6.7k hours

Post by spiral_power »

I record the current resource balance as it will be updated to 0.6 in the next couple of months.
At 0.5, there is an excess of iron, copper, stone and coal.

The condition is to perform continuous infinite mining research, automatic collection of arcospheres and, on rare occasions, creation of modules.
Methane was not used because it is finite and under poor conditions.

iron:
-provide: fragments
-consume: high & low efficiency balancing

-provide: scrap
-consume: low efficiency ( norbit )

copper:
-provide: fragments
-consume: high & low efficiency balancing

-provide: scrap
-consume: low efficiency ( norbit )

stone:
-provide: fragments & scrap & something
-consume: high efficiency, surplus is used for matter fusion

sand:
-consume: high efficiency

coal:
-provide: fragments
-consume: high efficiency, surplus is used for liquefaction

uran:
-provide: fragments, supplement with matter fusion

crude:
-provide: fragments, supplement with coremining

vita:
-provide: coremining

irid, holm, bery:
-provide: matter fusion

vulc:
-provide: fragments, supplement with matter fusion

cry:
-provide: matter fusion, supplement with coremining

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