Chunk-aligned modular railway system with LTN Stations

Smart setups of railway stations, intelligent routing, solutions to complex train-routing problems.
Please provide - only if it makes sense of course - a blueprint of your creation.
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Odhrean
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Re: Chunk-aligned modular railway system with LTN Stations

Post by Odhrean » Sat Jun 24, 2017 7:55 am

I would not use the universal Provider for Bulk Ore Transport. The Throughput is bad. Universal Provider are Perfect for Multi Suply Station for Mining Outposts, Construction Sites etc.

The Train Loading is not exact. The Stack Size of the Inserters is 12 at Max Tech. When the Delivery Size is reach during a Inserter Swing the delivery will be 12 higher than requested. When there is no more room in the Wagon the inserter will get stuck and it will hold the item until the next train arrives.
Reduce the delivery size to always have room for the last inserter swing.
Last edited by Odhrean on Sat Jun 24, 2017 11:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Chunk-aligned modular railway system with LTN Stations

Post by adamcirillo » Sat Jun 24, 2017 11:26 am

thanks for the tip will give it a shot

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Re: Chunk-aligned modular railway system with LTN Stations

Post by Odhrean » Sat Jun 24, 2017 12:15 pm

Use the Signal "Locked Slots per Wagon"!

I just asked Optera if this signal is for this scenario.

Here is the answer
Last edited by Odhrean on Fri Jun 30, 2017 12:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Chunk-aligned modular railway system with LTN Stations

Post by Optera » Sat Jun 24, 2017 12:21 pm

You should be able to reduce the amount of combinators on your loading/unloading stations using these designs as starting point.
viewtopic.php?f=94&t=36976&start=680#p279647

For putting items balanced on belts you can reduce splitters by using this method
2017-03-23-07-12-08-9703356.jpg
2017-03-23-07-12-08-9703356.jpg (102.34 KiB) Viewed 4466 times

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Re: Chunk-aligned modular railway system with LTN Stations

Post by PirateAE » Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:05 am

I found these blueprints to work rather well, i just wish there was a bulk load/unload with wherehouses

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Re: Chunk-aligned modular railway system with LTN Stations

Post by Odhrean » Fri Jun 30, 2017 12:46 pm

PirateAE wrote:I found these blueprints to work rather well, i just wish there was a bulk load/unload with wherehouses
I don't use any Warehouse Mods and will not create Blueprint Station for these. Feel free to create them :-D

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Re: Chunk-aligned modular railway system with LTN Stations

Post by PirateAE » Sun Jul 02, 2017 4:19 pm

Odhrean wrote:
PirateAE wrote:I found these blueprints to work rather well, i just wish there was a bulk load/unload with wherehouses
I don't use any Warehouse Mods and will not create Blueprint Station for these. Feel free to create them :-D
what would be the biggest things to look for? in all the cobanators

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Re: Chunk-aligned modular railway system with LTN Stations

Post by Odhrean » Sun Jul 02, 2017 9:58 pm

PirateAE wrote:
Odhrean wrote:
PirateAE wrote:I found these blueprints to work rather well, i just wish there was a bulk load/unload with wherehouses
I don't use any Warehouse Mods and will not create Blueprint Station for these. Feel free to create them :-D
what would be the biggest things to look for? in all the cobanators
The Maxium Buffer Fill Level

The Combinators next to the TrainStation calculate it like:
Sum of all Buffer-Chest-Slots = 32 Steel-Chest, 48 Slots each: 32*48= 1536 StackSlots available at the whole Station.
This is Multiplied with the Signal S (for Item-Count per Stack) to get the Number for the Request-Item-Count. (i.e. Iron Ore, StackSize=50 * 1536 => 76800, this is the max. Request-Count to fill the Station completly)

There is a Combinator where this number is hard coded. Search it and replace it with your Slot-Count of the Warehouse plus all Unload-Steel Chests. Make sure the Warehouse is connected to the LTN-Input (the Lamp) to sum-up all Items in the Warehouse.
When you forget this the Station will be overfilled!
If the Warehouse is connected via Belts i suggest you read the content of the belts aswell (read content with hold) and connect it to the LTN Input to include transportet items.
Last edited by Odhrean on Thu Jul 06, 2017 8:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Chunk-aligned modular railway system with LTN Stations

Post by Odhrean » Thu Jul 06, 2017 7:40 pm

Optera wrote: For putting items balanced on belts you can reduce splitters by using this method
The attachment 2017-03-23-07-12-08-9703356.jpg is no longer available
If I use your unload-Method there are gaps on the Blue-Belt (right on the Screenshot)
The Method I use fills a blue-belt with only 4 Stack Inserters without gaps on the belt. It uses two underground-Belts and a splitter per side more, but it is worth it.
2017-07-06 21_37_10-Factorio 0.15.28.png
2017-07-06 21_37_10-Factorio 0.15.28.png (338.62 KiB) Viewed 4370 times
Optera wrote: You should be able to reduce the amount of combinators on your loading/unloading stations using these designs as starting point.
viewtopic.php?f=94&t=36976&start=680#p279647
I'll reduce the combinator count on the next revision of the stations.
At the next revision i will also introduce more station types for multiple bulk items (3 per "Station"), replace the big nixie tube with the small (so the station is fully rotable) and will use the locked slots per wagon signal.

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Re: Chunk-aligned modular railway system with LTN Stations

Post by Odhrean » Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:04 pm

I just released Version 1.5 of the LTN-Trainstation Blueprint Book with major improvements.
I incorporated all suggestions made until now and reworked all Stations.
See the changelog in OP for more Details.

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Re: Chunk-aligned modular railway system with LTN Stations

Post by sgtsquiggs » Sat Jul 22, 2017 3:17 am

What do your fuel trains look like? The combinator for the fuel loading wants a 6-car train.


I'm dumb. L4CL would be LCCCCL.
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Re: Chunk-aligned modular railway system with LTN Stations

Post by sgtsquiggs » Sat Jul 22, 2017 3:40 pm

I'm constantly running into a situation with the bulk unloaders where there is a train stuck in the station with the front two cars empty, rear two cars full. It sits there and LTN queues up more deliveries. I end up with 4 trains waiting to unload iron, and the last two cars worth of buffer boxes are full.

I'm feeding iron directly into a ton of smelters, using an 8x8 balancer.
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Re: Chunk-aligned modular railway system with LTN Stations

Post by Odhrean » Sat Jul 22, 2017 6:57 pm

Can you post a screenshot of your station or send me your save game?
That should not happen with the stations.

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Re: Chunk-aligned modular railway system with LTN Stations

Post by sgtsquiggs » Sat Jul 22, 2017 7:23 pm

I had the standard 8x8 balancer in line with each station, maybe that was the cause? I am not uniformly consuming the 8 lines of output.

I am also having trouble with the outpost stations; they will request from my universal provider, but they will not provide to the LTN network. I have a single stone provider (using the outpost BP) and LTN is telling me there is no stone provider. You mention having to define X and S, did I miss these on this station? - it was waiting on a delivery of gate, which i was not supplying from anywhere


Image

I currently have each side (left/right) using a 4x4 input-balancer. It's helped a bit, but not perfect. The bottom-most car (supplying the outer two of the 8 lanes) seems to empty faster than the rest.



Ignore the coal station. I had an over-supply disaster and I'm trying to burn through a lot of excess...
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Re: Chunk-aligned modular railway system with LTN Stations

Post by Odhrean » Sat Jul 22, 2017 8:01 pm

sgtsquiggs wrote: I am also having trouble with the outpost stations; they will request from my universal provider, but they will not provide to the LTN network. I have a single stone provider (using the outpost BP) and LTN is telling me there is no stone provider. You mention having to define X and S, did I miss these on this station?
The Outpost-Station first Request Supplies and only if supplies are delivered they provide the stuff from the outpost. You need a Universal-Provider connected to a Shopping-Mall to fullill these request.
If you don't have it just disable the Supply Delivery at the Outpost-Station by turning both constant combinators shown here off:
Outpost_Supply_Off.png
Outpost_Supply_Off.png (483.25 KiB) Viewed 4259 times
I also set all Bulk-Stations and the Outpost Station to provide only to Trains with Minimum Train Length=6 and Maximum Train Length=6. If you i.e. request Stone from a Station with Minimum Train Length=2 and Maximum Train Length=2 (the 3-Bulk Stations are set this way) you have to set Minimum Train Length=2 out the Outpost and all Bulk providing things.

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Re: Chunk-aligned modular railway system with LTN Stations

Post by Odhrean » Sat Jul 22, 2017 8:06 pm

sgtsquiggs wrote:I had the standard 8x8 balancer in line with each station, maybe that was the cause? I am not uniformly consuming the 8 lines of output.

I currently have each side (left/right) using a 4x4 input-balancer. It's helped a bit, but not perfect. The bottom-most car (supplying the outer two of the 8 lanes) seems to empty faster than the rest.
The Balancer you use is not balanced over all 8 Belts. It is only Balanced over the left 4 and right 4 belts but not crosswise. It is important to drain all 32 chests of the Station equally empty. Try the 8x8 Balancer I provided in the BB.

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Re: Chunk-aligned modular railway system with LTN Stations

Post by sgtsquiggs » Sat Jul 22, 2017 8:41 pm

Odhrean wrote: I also set all Bulk-Stations and the Outpost Station to provide only to Trains with Minimum Train Length=6 and Maximum Train Length=6. If you i.e. request Stone from a Station with Minimum Train Length=2 and Maximum Train Length=2 (the 3-Bulk Stations are set this way) you have to set Minimum Train Length=2 out the Outpost and all Bulk providing things.
Got it. Built a few small shuttles and that's working fine. Haven't really dove into the 3-type stations yet, but will probably when I have remote production going.

I was able to settle the bulk unloader problem. I ended up emptying all of the chests, resetting the balancer to the standard 8x8 (or 8x4, 8x2, etc) and it all works great now. Train comes in, unloads evenly, jets.


Thanks for the help!
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Re: Chunk-aligned modular railway system with LTN Stations

Post by Tallinu » Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:59 am

I keep finding my junction designs in odd places. Makes me grin every time. I was pretty surprised when the "Cross" ended up being the best two-lane junction Aaargha had tested... until I started using his testbed map to design things that left it in the dust. ;)
Odhrean wrote:
trqwe wrote:I like it! By the way, your high throughput cross seems like it can support a 7 car buffer. Why don't you do LCCCCCL instead?
In fact i never used the high throughput cross myself and only added it because i thought it might be good... i changed it to be chunk-aligned so it is a bit longer. I never designed it to match this LTN Stations exactly (LCCCL)... perhapbs i'll remove it sometime..
That'd be a shame, you're more than welcome to keep using it. As for the buffer size, giving trains only the exact amount of space they occupy while stopped actually makes them block each other's paths for a significantly longer time, as the train will slow to nearly a halt before completely clearing the intersection or fork it's moving out of. An extra 1-2 car lengths of space allows the train to still be moving at a pretty decent speed, clearing the way for other trains much more promptly and then decelerating. I recently posted some test figures for that on Aaargha's thread (which you linked in the OP, but the specific post I'm talking about is here).

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Re: Chunk-aligned modular railway system with LTN Stations

Post by Drachennarr » Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:45 pm

Hi, nice Blueprint-Book and some nice look. ... but i´ve got some problems with the fluid-Station ... all is set up ... but nothing happens. no train that go to the requester and my base is running out of fuel ... :( ... any Ideas?

mfg

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Re: Chunk-aligned modular railway system with LTN Stations

Post by DaPassenger » Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:05 am

@ Odhrean

I tryed to play around with the LTN Stations Blueprint Book, hitting some issues. Maybe its just my missunderstanding of the signals etc.

I wanted to use the "Universal Requester" and the "Universal Provider". Using a Testsetup with 2 Depots, the 2 stations (the 2 roboports dont connect to each other). I put some Stoare Chests near the Provider, put 1000 Iron Plates in. Provide Treshold is 200 at the provider, Request Treshhold 1M. At the Request Station Request Treshold 100, Changed the 1st X to 400 Iron Plates.

But is still does not create any scedule. Using a LCCCL train sitting in the depot. Maybe I'm missing something? Help is much appreciated.

Edit: I see... i have the same problem as the guy above this. :D Fluid Station won't do anything

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