Simple combinator-free safe rail crossing

Smart setups of railway stations, intelligent routing, solutions to complex train-routing problems.
Please provide - only if it makes sense of course - a blueprint of your creation.
User avatar
Pavgran
Burner Inserter
Burner Inserter
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2016 8:09 am
Contact:

Simple combinator-free safe rail crossing

Post by Pavgran »

With 0.13 release we can now connect gates and signals to the circuit network. In FFF 140 there was shown a way to make safe rail crossing, but there were combinators involved.
I've managed to get rid of the combinators.

Here is how it looks like:
Image
How it works
You can remove train gates as they are completely optional: trains are stopped by signals. You can also add some visual indication with lamps.
1-way blueprint string
2-way blueprint string

Miravlix
Long Handed Inserter
Long Handed Inserter
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2016 8:48 am
Contact:

Re: Simple combinator-free safe rail crossing

Post by Miravlix »

Great idea, but this type don't actually prevent getting the avatar killed.

You need to place the trigger point far enough away that a train can react and stop before the avatar crosses the rail, I've not bothered to figure out the number of tiles away the gate need to be for it to catch a top speed train, but it's at least 10+ tiles from the rail with exo modular armor and cement speed boost, making it pretty much a broken concept.

Edit: Maybe reversing the concept will make safe crossing, by having the rail signal close the gate and making the player run face first into it.

User avatar
Pavgran
Burner Inserter
Burner Inserter
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2016 8:09 am
Contact:

Re: Simple combinator-free safe rail crossing

Post by Pavgran »

Miravlix wrote:Edit: Maybe reversing the concept will make safe crossing, by having the rail signal close the gate and making the player run face first into it.
It actually works exactly that way. When the signal is red or yellow, player gate closes. So if the train can't stop before the crossing, player gates get shut regardless of player being nearby.

User avatar
HeilTec
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 258
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 1:14 pm
Contact:

Re: Simple combinator-free safe rail crossing

Post by HeilTec »

I wanted to design a safe crossing, and did it with no regard to any posted images.
Safe Crossing
Safe Crossing
ss (2016-07-05 at 12.01.44).jpg (191.1 KiB) Viewed 34412 times
Perhaps there are even more variations to be found.
Google is my friend. Searching the forum and the wiki is always a first.

User avatar
Optera
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 2846
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2016 6:41 am
Contact:

Re: Simple combinator-free safe rail crossing

Post by Optera »

Here's my take on a save crossing.
It locks the gates on red and yellow of the crossing block and also turns the entry signal red when any gate activates.
20160705075245_1.jpg
20160705075245_1.jpg (713.64 KiB) Viewed 34379 times
BP String:

Code: Select all

H4sIAAAAAAAA/+WYUW+bMBDHv0qV51CBbZJOFXvdh5gm5IKbWiKAjNOtQ3z3GUhUnJHwv75sSvvSUg77fn/fnc/Oq7uiymRxlyatKq22WjVJ25Zyr5JVY43U
uxcbuF/Fal1XjXtflUn7KwnY+i0JNl23Pto+6V2gCpVZo7Ogrgrl20e9edyts6osnZH7r5vm+ypa/UjanVHKGY3zv6U6T764Yd+fIuY/Cv/xwXsUUdf/nNxq
9rIogkLu6zN/7uMB4D6e2F7GFWe0vUXQ6F0pz3Xh48DifoS1pirSJ/UiX3VlkjbTJjtom2ZF1ah0HCCx5qDWpzdGyfz04lkWzfsbN1p+nOdZm8aerFr7VjuX
XrWxh96dI8zwMvi2GtxorCxtEro/97U00jpfVl9XHb4enqZLYSFwTQWgaTxKyntJc21Gd93noLy+ilN9B+ErI8udSquDrQ+Ypkblvar/fllc6PvrUpUq+OkC
fj4m2fWYrGpVpjtp1VxAqrJxtt6LD4EPEFP46KPwflGIPSV6inkNIjDhx0BmgLjhbYq7IGc4K+e8ROwzKsRo8SbOwu3vAWOC4vFtKj5N+Acs4cOpXJfLQkgp
CyGQGUvzhjPzXgoiyAhGEEsEMTJpDPl/lBeK2aPtbcUs/3K1OV0INHz7uS3VzmS6mD6E3eeTCcTm9LlaEoC9h7D13JzcXhZzT/2lsyAnHAVv96zCQ1Lpm5wL
gZsF+GLB7yGcT96jf5PA/XsGzlAA4fu/cK4VHzzW/v+3Bvz8eHp9ySfXK9dvbSiXNpveAZ0NjrY+urZqf+IePnaGZa7cLG7wy6Yv8rc0eeCGzIxyhfL0VV9A
rS6G6zOPbTO29sfPJ9/NmEWQWQhZLY81Xqt082BBoZ7t/CfLMDEGE0MwMQzDSCyCji8wfIHhCwhfQPiCjM/p+BzD5xg+h/A5hM/J+IyOzzB8huEzCJ9B+IyM
H9HxIww/wvAjCD+C8CMqfkimDyH4EGIPEfQQIQ+p4PRlx1YdW3RozaElJ684Pd2xbMeSHcp1KNXJmU4v81iVx4o8VOOhEk+u8PTtHdvdsc0d2tuhrZ28s9Pb
Oqyrw5o6qKeDWjpyR7chg2O9OdaaQ5051JhvqOBbCGMLYWwRjO08Rtc9uj8OprxLH1WZ/wHkj99xXSAAAA==
With my main line buzzing with fast 2-6-2 trains it already saved me a couple of times.

taigcris
Burner Inserter
Burner Inserter
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:45 am
Contact:

Re: Simple combinator-free safe rail crossing

Post by taigcris »

You can make a safe crossing without the use of combinators, if the two signals are green (both rail signals are green) the gates is open but, one or more signals turn red o yellow the gates close. Gates are defined green=2

User avatar
brunzenstein
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 1033
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:27 pm
Contact:

Re: Simple combinator-free safe rail crossing

Post by brunzenstein »

taigcris wrote:You can make a safe crossing without the use of combinators, if the two signals are green (both rail signals are green) the gates is open but, one or more signals turn red o yellow the gates close. Gates are defined green=2
Crossing is ok but what if you stand on the track and a train arrives?

taigcris
Burner Inserter
Burner Inserter
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:45 am
Contact:

Re: Simple combinator-free safe rail crossing

Post by taigcris »

brunzenstein wrote:
taigcris wrote:You can make a safe crossing without the use of combinators, if the two signals are green (both rail signals are green) the gates is open but, one or more signals turn red o yellow the gates close. Gates are defined green=2
Crossing is ok but what if you stand on the track and a train arrives?
Yeah, in this case i'm die. I had thought about it ... but there should rarely happen ...

twepy
Long Handed Inserter
Long Handed Inserter
Posts: 95
Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2015 6:19 pm
Contact:

Re: Simple combinator-free safe rail crossing

Post by twepy »

The key of the safe rail crossing is the player detection range of the gates, as long as your within that range youre protected* outside that range you are game for any train. So its important to have gates at both sides of the track at the crossing to be within detection range the whole time.

*However in my own tests ive noted that if a train already has reserved the block it will ignore the signal and continue on. So dont run into the crossing blind because there could be still a train coming through. To prevent that kind of situation it would require multiple layers of gates to make system detect you early enough to switch the signal to red to stop passing trains and trains that already reserved the block are past the crossing.

User avatar
brunzenstein
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 1033
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:27 pm
Contact:

Re: Simple combinator-free safe rail crossing

Post by brunzenstein »

There must be a way (mod) to determine the position of the player standing idle on the track via a pressure sensitive tile that stops the train just in case...

User avatar
Optera
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 2846
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2016 6:41 am
Contact:

Re: Simple combinator-free safe rail crossing

Post by Optera »

twepy wrote:The key of the safe rail crossing is the player detection range of the gates, as long as your within that range youre protected* outside that range you are game for any train. So its important to have gates at both sides of the track at the crossing to be within detection range the whole time.
The reliable detection range of gates is 2 blocks. That's why I added the inner gates to my construction.
twepy wrote:*However in my own tests ive noted that if a train already has reserved the block it will ignore the signal and continue on. So dont run into the crossing blind because there could be still a train coming through. To prevent that kind of situation it would require multiple layers of gates to make system detect you early enough to switch the signal to red to stop passing trains and trains that already reserved the block are past the crossing.
Or you set the gate to closed when any signal at crossing exit is either yellow or red.

ratchetfreak
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 950
Joined: Sat May 23, 2015 12:10 pm
Contact:

Re: Simple combinator-free safe rail crossing

Post by ratchetfreak »

Optera wrote:
twepy wrote:*However in my own tests ive noted that if a train already has reserved the block it will ignore the signal and continue on. So dont run into the crossing blind because there could be still a train coming through. To prevent that kind of situation it would require multiple layers of gates to make system detect you early enough to switch the signal to red to stop passing trains and trains that already reserved the block are past the crossing.
Or you set the gate to closed when any signal at crossing exit is either yellow or red.
you can set the detection signals to be further out from the signals being controlled for a bit of leeway. you should still detect yellow and red conditions.

User avatar
Optera
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 2846
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2016 6:41 am
Contact:

Re: Simple combinator-free safe rail crossing

Post by Optera »

ratchetfreak wrote:
Optera wrote:
twepy wrote:*However in my own tests ive noted that if a train already has reserved the block it will ignore the signal and continue on. So dont run into the crossing blind because there could be still a train coming through. To prevent that kind of situation it would require multiple layers of gates to make system detect you early enough to switch the signal to red to stop passing trains and trains that already reserved the block are past the crossing.
Or you set the gate to closed when any signal at crossing exit is either yellow or red.
you can set the detection signals to be further out from the signals being controlled for a bit of leeway. you should still detect yellow and red conditions.
You want the gates closed when the train is passing them not open just before it rushes through

User avatar
tzwaan
Inserter
Inserter
Posts: 42
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2016 12:12 am
Contact:

Re: Simple combinator-free safe rail crossing

Post by tzwaan »

I used the combinator-free design, but added indicator lights showing if the track is clear, or a train is coming/passing through.
I achieved this by putting two rail signals directly after eachother at each entrance. The second rail signal is the one used to block the trains and detect trains coming. The first rail signal is only used to read the current color of the lights. Because the signals are this close together, the signal will not turn red, but instead stay yellow, even though it has technically entered the block to the next signal.

Something to note if you want an earlier warning of a train coming, or want the gate to close earlier: you can add a chain signal earlier on the track so the train has to reserve the block further in advance. Meaning the signal will turn yellow much earlier.

The crossing:
Image

Train trying to enter:
Image

Train blocking the crossing:
Image

phi1010
Inserter
Inserter
Posts: 46
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2016 3:31 pm
Contact:

Re: Simple combinator-free safe rail crossing

Post by phi1010 »

Just closing the gates on red/yellow doesnt't work if you are running really fast, because the gates can take too long to actually close; but if you also close the gates on green signals, you get a safe behaviour, only opening when the player and no train is there, and never closing again when the player is there, as long as this bug-looking behaviour with the four-state signals exists (modded to prevent the train from stopping on the crossing by simulating presignals, delete the left signal, if you don't want the gates to open if there is a train in the section after the crossing):
2016-08-21 15_47_20-Factorio 0.13.17.png
2016-08-21 15_47_20-Factorio 0.13.17.png (370.29 KiB) Viewed 32854 times
Blueprint String
Config

Juggla
Inserter
Inserter
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2016 11:22 pm
Contact:

Re: Simple combinator-free safe rail crossing

Post by Juggla »

brunzenstein wrote:There must be a way (mod) to determine the position of the player standing idle on the track via a pressure sensitive tile that stops the train just in case...
If you are standing on the track close enough to a gate wired into the network then your signal should turn red and the train should not run you over. If you set it up correctly then you should never get hit as long as you only cross/stand at the crossings

I'm wishing I found this thread earlier. I just stumbled upon being able to connect gates and signals this morning. Worked up everything from the ground up without help. This is what I came up with. Posted it just a few mins ago Here ===> viewtopic.php?f=8&t=6008&start=400

User avatar
TeZwo
Burner Inserter
Burner Inserter
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 6:57 am
Contact:

Re: Simple combinator-free safe rail crossing

Post by TeZwo »

Just nailed it :D

the last time i was on a trail only server. The main bus are the trains. Well this kills me very often >_>.
The last two days i've working on this setup. A colleague build some examples too. But sometimes the doors open and the train stand infront of me ^^.

One big problem was that the sensor of the gate. It react on the trains too ( signals and doors going crazy). Then i build a clock with a timer.
The gate sensor have a min. reach of two blocks. The signal cannot interrupt if i'm between the two long gates.
Bottom left is the logic. A clock that will reset when no input comes from the gates.
First, signal goes red after 1 sec. Waiting 1sec. (Yellow Sometimes a train will ignore the red signal if the train comes with full speed.)
Second, check if any trains on the crossing, close the doors to the trains and open these for the people (Green)

The blinking light on the top and bottom are optional.

Image

mrvn
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 5112
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2016 9:10 am
Contact:

Re: Simple combinator-free safe rail crossing

Post by mrvn »

First: A clock won't work when you stand in the middle. And also isn't combinator free.

But what I really wanted to add is that you have a 5 lane crossing and entering the crossing will block all 5 lanes and you get no signal when you stand in the middle.

If instead of you add gates left and right of each track you get a reliable signal whenever you stand on any track and you can also separate the crossings for each track to only block that one track.

railrunner16
Manual Inserter
Manual Inserter
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun May 21, 2017 2:12 am
Contact:

Re: Simple combinator-free safe rail crossing

Post by railrunner16 »

thanks. i got killed by trains all the time before using this blueprint and now that problem is eliminated

mrvn
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 5112
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2016 9:10 am
Contact:

Re: Simple combinator-free safe rail crossing

Post by mrvn »

Except for all the times you just cross the tracks and later wished you had used the crossing instead.

I really need to plan some consistent roads with crossings instead of just running every which way.

Post Reply

Return to “Railway Setups”