3 and 4 way intersections

Smart setups of railway stations, intelligent routing, solutions to complex train-routing problems.
Please provide - only if it makes sense of course - a blueprint of your creation.
Post Reply
Copy link
Factoriointersection
Long Handed Inserter
Long Handed Inserter
Posts: 53
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2021 4:58 pm
Contact:
Contact Factoriointersection

3 and 4 way intersections

Post by Factoriointersection »

2.0 intersections!
If you want your intersection included you can post here. Some might need some adjustment to be added. If you have both LHT and RHT versions of the intersection that would be great!
The testbench isn't made to test elevated intersection so it might be changed in the future to more accuratly stresstest elevated intersections.
The testbench mod to test intersections here:
https://mods.factorio.com/mod/Testbenchcontrols
Tberras mod is also mostly compatiable as its based on the testbenchcontrols mod, so you can use that aswell if you want.
https://mods.factorio.com/mod/RailTester
-- 4-Way --
-- 3-Way --
Last edited by Factoriointersection on Fri Nov 15, 2024 9:25 pm, edited 179 times in total.
Top
Factoriointersection
Long Handed Inserter
Long Handed Inserter
Posts: 53
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2021 4:58 pm
Contact:
Contact Factoriointersection

Re: 3 and 4 way intersections

Post by Factoriointersection »

Legacy 1.1 intersection to look at if you want inspiration.
Intersections
-- 4-Way --
-- 3-Way --
Last edited by Factoriointersection on Thu Oct 24, 2024 8:37 pm, edited 5 times in total.
Top
Tallywort
Inserter
Inserter
Posts: 23
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2021 11:57 am
Contact:
Contact Tallywort

Re: 3 and 4 way intersections [Work in progress]

Post by Tallywort »

Great to see a new intersection thread. Hope this one will be as popular as the last
Top
FuryoftheStars
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 2768
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:01 pm
Contact:
Contact FuryoftheStars

Re: 3 and 4 way intersections [Work in progress]

Post by FuryoftheStars »

Indeed, awesome to see this brought back to life!
My Mods: Classic Factorio Basic Oil Processing | Sulfur Production from Oils | Wood to Oil Processing | Infinite Resources - Normal Yield | Tree Saplings (Redux) | Alien Biomes Tweaked | Restrictions on Artificial Tiles | New Gear Girl & HR Graphics
Top
aka13
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 795
Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2013 1:18 pm
Contact:
Contact aka13

Re: 3 and 4 way intersections [Work in progress]

Post by aka13 »

As always, thank you for your time, great work
Pony/Furfag avatar? Opinion discarded.
Top
Factoriointersection
Long Handed Inserter
Long Handed Inserter
Posts: 53
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2021 4:58 pm
Contact:
Contact Factoriointersection

Re: 3 and 4 way intersections, Ranked by Throughput

Post by Factoriointersection »

Thanks=)
Now the post is usable.
Still work to be done though=)
Top
Koub
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 7784
Joined: Fri May 30, 2014 8:54 am
Contact:
Contact Koub

Re: 3 and 4 way intersections [Work in progress]

Post by Koub »

In the old thread, there was an additional criterium : the intersection's deadlock proneness (which I found tremendously useful). Do you plan to integrate it at some point ? Or is it out of your scope ?
Koub - Please consider English is not my native language.
Top
Factoriointersection
Long Handed Inserter
Long Handed Inserter
Posts: 53
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2021 4:58 pm
Contact:
Contact Factoriointersection

Re: 3 and 4 way intersections

Post by Factoriointersection »

Koub wrote: ↑Wed Nov 17, 2021 5:19 pm In the old thread, there was an additional criterium : the intersection's deadlock proneness (which I found tremendously useful). Do you plan to integrate it at some point ? Or is it out of your scope ?
After the 0.15.27 update intersections will either deadlock in normal traffic or it will not. So the old deadlock rating is useless. For posted intersections that deadlock we'll comment it:)
aaargha wrote: With the changes made to the path-finding algorithm in 0.15.27 almost all intersections rated from B to E (inclusive) are safe as long as the player does neither, disable the train station the train is heading to while travelling, nor, destroy/build rails/signals that makes the train's path invalid.
Top
Koub
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 7784
Joined: Fri May 30, 2014 8:54 am
Contact:
Contact Koub

Re: 3 and 4 way intersections

Post by Koub »

Haha I feel stupid. I confess I have almost never used trains, I guess the last time was before 0.15.27. Time sure does fly.
Koub - Please consider English is not my native language.
Top
User avatar
hansjoachim
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 252
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:03 pm
Contact:
Contact hansjoachim

Re: 3 and 4 way intersections

Post by hansjoachim »

Koub wrote: ↑Wed Nov 17, 2021 8:04 pm Haha I feel stupid. I confess I have almost never used trains, I guess the last time was before 0.15.27. Time sure does fly.
it does=)
Top
farcast
Long Handed Inserter
Long Handed Inserter
Posts: 87
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2018 8:25 am
Contact:
Contact farcast

Re: 3 and 4 way intersections

Post by farcast »

After looking at junctions for a while, especially the multicross junction, I thought of seeing what would happen if I just spaced out that triple crossing you see in a lot of T-junctions. This "Double Image" junction is the result.
Double Image
RHD Scores
Set 1: 53
Set 2: 59*

You can improve the set 1 score to 57 by breaking the exit block into a 2 car block and a 4-5 car block after it. If you do this, then there needs to be another 6 car block afterwards, as well as only using 5-6 car trains, to prevent deadlocks. I chose to list the score for the more general use case.

* The set 2 score is heavily dependent on two things. The signal spacing leading up to the junction needs to match the length of an inner buffer, and the three inner buffers need to be near exactly the same size. When these two conditions are met, then crossings will synchronize in an extremely satisfying way. My efforts to disrupt the timing revealed this behavior to be stable, meaning crossings will naturally synchronize like this. If either condition isn't met, then this behavior will be unstable, crossings won't synchronize, and set 2 performance will drop to 43.
Synchronized crossing.gif
Synchronized crossing.gif (164.77 KiB) Viewed 115325 times
Extending the buffers to fit 2 trains only improved set 1 TPM from 53 to 57, and had no effect on set 2 TPM, so I decided not to include that since splitting the exit block could get the same benefit, though I haven't tested using both.

Using oversized 1 train buffers increased the set 1 score to 55, but crossing behavior became unstable. I tested again after increasing the signal spacing from 6 cars to matching the inner buffer length, and crossing behavior became stable again. The set 2 score after increasing the signal spacing was 63 TPM while the set 1 score dropped back to 53. At this point I realized ~63 TPM might be the hard limit for crossing performance without using multiple parallel crossing lanes for each entrance, as there was never not a train passing the chain signals at near full speed.

Bonus RHD Double Double Image scores (without split exits)
Set 1: 54
Set 2: 55
Set 3: 74

Blueprints are for 6 car trains and 7 car 27 rail tile signal spacing, but would also work with 6 car signal spacing. After figuring out that I can switch between set 1 and set 2 without waiting for trains to clear out, I found out that the tolerance for self synchronization is even less than I thought. Signal spacing really needs to be near exactly the same as the buffer length. I think it might actually be buffer length + chain signal blocks, but in this case there's not much difference.

Last edited by farcast on Sat Nov 20, 2021 8:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
Efficient inefficient design.
Top
mrvn
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 5860
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2016 9:10 am
Contact:
Contact mrvn

Re: 3 and 4 way intersections

Post by mrvn »

Wouldn't it be better to have 4 lanes between the 2 Ts?
Top
farcast
Long Handed Inserter
Long Handed Inserter
Posts: 87
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2018 8:25 am
Contact:
Contact farcast

Re: 3 and 4 way intersections

Post by farcast »

mrvn wrote: ↑Sat Nov 20, 2021 3:41 am Wouldn't it be better to have 4 lanes between the 2 Ts?
Good idea! I was going for minimal buffers, but since buffers need to be there anyway, I might as well make good use of the space.
Double Double Image v2
New RHD scores
Set 1: 62
Set 2: 56
Set 3: 77

Maybe there's a better way to do it, but it's hard to make changes without making crossings unstable. I get the feeling this concept doesn't scale very easily, if at all.

Efficient inefficient design.
Top
Kano96
Burner Inserter
Burner Inserter
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2021 12:39 pm
Contact:
Contact Kano96

Re: 3 and 4 way intersections

Post by Kano96 »

Hey, nice intersection! The synchronized crossings are mesmerizing.
Do you want to have it added to the post? If yes, which version? V2 obviously performs better, but I also like the simplicity of the original.
Top
mmmPI
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 3629
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2016 6:10 pm
Contact:
Contact mmmPI

Re: 3 and 4 way intersections

Post by mmmPI »

very inspiring :)
Top
farcast
Long Handed Inserter
Long Handed Inserter
Posts: 87
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2018 8:25 am
Contact:
Contact farcast

Re: 3 and 4 way intersections

Post by farcast »

Kano96 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 20, 2021 7:34 pm Hey, nice intersection! The synchronized crossings are mesmerizing.
Do you want to have it added to the post? If yes, which version? V2 obviously performs better, but I also like the simplicity of the original.
I would love for it to be added, thanks! I think v2 should be used, since it allows for simultaneous left & right turns from one T to the next, which is situationally better. It still has synchronized crossings, so it's just better all around.
Efficient inefficient design.
Top
User avatar
DaveMcW
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 3715
Joined: Tue May 13, 2014 11:06 am
Contact:
Contact DaveMcW

Re: 3 and 4 way intersections

Post by DaveMcW »

Branch Predictor

4-Way, 2 Lane, Unbuffered.

Image



This intersection attempts to keep a pair of compatible lanes running at high speed as long as possible. It works best when many trains in a row are going to the same destination.

The main intersection is 58x58, but the train detector requires the 7-tile-spaced signals to extend past the end of the first train. So the blueprint for 6 wagon trains is 114x114. There is probably room to optimize these numbers by adjusting the train detector.
Top
Factoriointersection
Long Handed Inserter
Long Handed Inserter
Posts: 53
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2021 4:58 pm
Contact:
Contact Factoriointersection

Re: 3 and 4 way intersections

Post by Factoriointersection »

DaveMcW wrote: ↑Sun Nov 21, 2021 7:04 am Branch Predictor

4-Way, 2 Lane, Unbuffered.

Image



This intersection attempts to keep a pair of compatible lanes running at high speed as long as possible. It works best when many trains in a row are going to the same destination.

The main intersection is 58x58, but the train detector requires the 7-tile-spaced signals to extend past the end of the first train. So the blueprint for 6 wagon trains is 114x114. There is probably room to optimize these numbers by adjusting the train detector.
That is pretty cool:) it gets a score of 53 which is better than an 2 lane unbuffered intersections. Regulary turning signals of, with combinators, causes trains to repath and try to avoid the intersection.
Top
User avatar
Lubricus
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 298
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 12:13 pm
Contact:
Contact Lubricus

Re: 3 and 4 way intersections

Post by Lubricus »

I have an design that I haven't seen any other use and shuldn't be to bad. 4-way unbufferd
https://factorioblueprints.tech/api/str ... c6df053472

https://factorioblueprints.tech/bluepri ... 450d3521dd
Top
causa-sui
Long Handed Inserter
Long Handed Inserter
Posts: 69
Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2020 4:23 am
Contact:
Contact causa-sui

Re: 3 and 4 way intersections

Post by causa-sui »

2-lane, 4-way buffered by Tallinu. RHD.



Results in testbench 4.2.1, factorio 1.1.46 (build 59110, linux amd64): 45/48/45/46
Top
Post Reply

Return to “Railway Setups”