How to load 4 blue belts per wagon?

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Bauer
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How to load 4 blue belts per wagon?

Post by Bauer » Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:51 pm

Is there a solution? Can't find anything here...
(there is a tread on how to unload on 4 or even more belts -- I am looking for the other way around!)

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Re: How to load 4 blue belts per wagon?

Post by 5thHorseman » Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:06 pm

Here's one of my older, less cringe-worthy designs that can easily do 1-4 lines of input, have perfect balance between the buffer boxes, and fit fairly snugly in a line of stations.
Image

I made a more compact version that used all 6 available spots, but can't find a picture and have since abandoned that design for a simpler one kind of like this pic that's not mine:
Image

I still use buffer chests, though, so my new way looks like that 2nd one but with buffer chests like in the first one.

EDIT: Here's the enhanced version of my earlier station. It could take up to 6 belts, did perfect balancing, and allowed stations to be 14 tiles apart. Using a 4-6 balancer, or two 2-3 balancers, would (and in my factory frequently did ) make it work perfectly with 4 incoming belts.

Image

(sorry the images show more than just the station. They're old and were for other things, but just happen to show the stations as well)
"So you completed the game with a spaghetti factory? Well I hand crafted a rocket and threw it into space with my bare hands!"

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Re: How to load 4 blue belts per wagon?

Post by zOldBulldog » Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:06 am

For the fastest load/unload of 4 blue belts I used many designs.

But in the end I got tired and started using 4 MiniLoaders (MiniLoaders mod).

It is very compact and loads/unloads at the speed that the belt moves.

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Re: How to load 4 blue belts per wagon?

Post by Bauer » Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:15 am

5thHorseman wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:06 pm
Here's one of my older, less cringe-worthy designs that can easily do 1-4 lines of input, have perfect balance between the buffer boxes, and fit fairly snugly in a line of stations.
Thanks for your answer, but I have to say that you got me wrong.
I want to consume 4 blue belts per wagon. In case of 2 wagons, it means that you load with an average of 360 items/s.

In yet other words: How do you insert 180 items/s smoothly into 12 chests?

Can it be done?
Last edited by Bauer on Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: How to load 4 blue belts per wagon?

Post by DaveMcW » Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:37 am

Yes it can be done.

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Re: How to load 4 blue belts per wagon?

Post by leadraven » Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:59 am

I like belt designs, but dealing with bigger stations I came to the conclusion that it's better to separate wagon<->chests and chests<->belts stages using bots.
Rails become too scattered if they are mixed with belts bus. The main problem I currently have is fluid [un]loader - it takes at least 5 cells deep. If someone knows compact fluid station setup - please let me know =)

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Re: How to load 4 blue belts per wagon?

Post by Bauer » Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:11 am


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Re: How to load 4 blue belts per wagon?

Post by disentius » Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:43 pm

does that still work with the new beltspeed?
nice!

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Re: How to load 4 blue belts per wagon?

Post by disentius » Tue Apr 23, 2019 10:05 pm

Without tank:)

2 blue belts -> 90i/s.
4 stack inserters (with stack bonus 7) can move 110,76 i/s from chest to chest https://deniszholob.github.io/factorio- ... throughput
Also, 2 stack inserters can pick up half a blue belt.

8 inserters to 4 chests. Something like this:
4bb train load.png
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This should work. Oddly, it has little hiccups. Looks like inserters have timing issues. Any suggestions?

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Re: How to load 4 blue belts per wagon?

Post by Bauer » Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:21 am

Nice design, disentius. Only 4 inserters into the train, though.

It helps to split left lane/right lane for 2 inserters each. However, this doesn't fully remove the hiccups.
I also tried to reduce the stack size of the second inserter of a pair. Doesn't improve, too.

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Re: How to load 4 blue belts per wagon?

Post by Bauer » Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:22 am

Or I just leave it as it is, because almost 32 blue belts of plastics probably is good enough.
;-)

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Re: How to load 4 blue belts per wagon?

Post by Zool » Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:48 am

From my experience, having 2 belt per wagon and a buffer chest ist perfectly fine, but for important stations, I use a different setup meanwhile:
- all bufferchests for a single wagon are combined with a decider circuit that asks, if there is exactly enough of the item to fill a complete wagon. If so, it outputs a „1“
- If all wagonslots have enough material, the trainstation gets enabled.

This way, you can guarantee that the train gets loaded at max speed, and can perfectly combine multiple rails in a way, where the train always selects the perfect one for loading.

For unloading, you do it the other way round, and all wagonslots, who have enough space for another wagon send the „1“.

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Re: How to load 4 blue belts per wagon?

Post by Bauer » Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:22 am

4 blue belts do 180 items/s
It takes about 22 s to deliver 4000 items this way.

It takes about 12 s to shovel 4000 items from 12 boxes into the wagon. That leaves about 10 s for the train to leave and the next one to come, which is more than enough.

If you use less than 4 belts per wagon, you need two times as many stations (or you are dealing with low stack size items).
This, I consider muda.

BTW, if you limit the size of the boxes you don't need to toggle the stations on/off. A chain signal at the exit of your train stacker will do the job as well. If a train has to wait you are not fulfilling the demand. Toggleing off the station doesn't change this fact. With a limited box size, e.g. 10 stacks, you can avoid a very uneven distribution. If you toggle the train stations AND have an underproduction, you also need a measure to avoid that all stations of that type are switched off (to avoid that your trains get a "Sinnkrise").

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Re: How to load 4 blue belts per wagon?

Post by djpimpstick » Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:50 pm

I find it always best to dead head a 4-to-6 balanced belt directly into a row of chests
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Re: How to load 4 blue belts per wagon?

Post by mrvn » Thu Aug 08, 2019 3:08 pm

Bauer wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:22 am
4 blue belts do 180 items/s
It takes about 22 s to deliver 4000 items this way.

It takes about 12 s to shovel 4000 items from 12 boxes into the wagon. That leaves about 10 s for the train to leave and the next one to come, which is more than enough.

If you use less than 4 belts per wagon, you need two times as many stations (or you are dealing with low stack size items).
This, I consider muda.

BTW, if you limit the size of the boxes you don't need to toggle the stations on/off. A chain signal at the exit of your train stacker will do the job as well. If a train has to wait you are not fulfilling the demand. Toggleing off the station doesn't change this fact. With a limited box size, e.g. 10 stacks, you can avoid a very uneven distribution. If you toggle the train stations AND have an underproduction, you also need a measure to avoid that all stations of that type are switched off (to avoid that your trains get a "Sinnkrise").
It takes say 110s for the train to get from the ore mine to the smelter. Same the other way. That means I need to have 10 trains constantly moving flawlessly to sustain 22s per train. Some extra for congestion or for when the nearer ore mine is dry. Lets call it 16 trains, a nice round number. And when things back up all those 16 trains will end up at the smelter. So I need a 16 train stacker too. Compared to that putting down 2 (or 4) stations in parallel is not such a burden.

Example setup:

Code: Select all

     /+++++++-\
    ////////   \
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--+++++++/     /
              /
---S--:--:---+
\--S--:--:--/
 \-S--:--:-/
  \S--:--:/
4 Trains can be at the station unloading (or stuck with full buffer chests) and 4 more trains can wait behind that. Then 8 more trains can be in the stacker. Enough space for 16 trains and unloading one belt per wagon to get the same throughput you requested.

I rather use less than 4 belts per wagon. And no, I don't need two times as many stations. I can use two times as many stations (or four times as in the example above) but I can also use two times as many wagons. Because more stations still means the network has to manage one train every 22s. Double the train size and you only need a train every 44s. Make two station and each takes 12s to unload and has 76s for the next train to arrive.

Note: With twice as many stations you can also use half the number of inserters per wagon. So same number in total. So all it costs you is the extra rails, signals, train stop and little space.

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Re: How to load 4 blue belts per wagon?

Post by djpimpstick » Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:09 pm

If its helpful at all...

I like to smelt at /near the mine. Wagons hold more units of plates than ore thus reducing required number of trains going into the base. Trains that stack up at the mine/smelter are out of the way. Trains that stack up at the delivery point are full of finished plates. Once my base got up over 150 trains, traffic and game performance was just a nightmare. I had to switch to the "Smelt at the Mine" setup. I was able to transition everything and got down to 100 trains, making fewer trips and still maintain, even increase, overall BASE outputs.
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