Kovarex process - Only take what you need!

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GrumpyJoe
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Kovarex process - Only take what you need!

Post by GrumpyJoe » Tue Jan 22, 2019 12:59 am

Hello there.


Sorry for the wall of text, i kinda want to explain the motivation and circuits. And im bad at pic editing.
I´d like to share a design that i have used for a while.
Took me abit longer to realize i dont need 3-4 combinators to create a counter (haven´t looked at this one for ages), but today its ready to be shown, at least a first glimpse.


The basic idea was, that the centrifuges feed themself with U235 and only spit out whats created once the process started: 1xU235 (make 41 from 40)
The problem i had with it was, that machines automaticly take double the amount of whats needed, so the 2nd (and every one after that) centrifuge in line would only get U235 once the previous had loaded 80x U235.
80 of anything but U235 may not sound much, but thats 40 more than needed. At a 0.7% chance to get that from raw ore... well, you do the math. But dont forget to add up to your number of centrifuges!

So basicly, you "have" to watch the process and from time to time take from the first and feed the 2nd manually, so on and so fourth.
If you want/need all centrifuges running as soon as possible that is.
You can fire and forget of course, at some point the last machine will be running.

So, here it is:
Image

Bottom:
U238 filter inserters: nothing special, but since the machine in+output cant feed itself, you gotta get rid of excess U238. here its uncontrolled
U235 + decider combinator + stopped belt: inserter reads hand content (tick), sends it to the counter and that increments +1 U235.
Inserter will be disabled once its taken 40 (its stacksize is 1). The stopped belt will halt all, til counter says 40. This is to make sure that it doesn´t miss any precious ore, because you sent like 30 at a time. Ofc you could just feed all of it back to the start, but this isn´t really holding back the following centrifuges.
Side/Top:
Filter stack inserter (size 10) to only take out U235 here. Stack inserters (size 10), top one only enabled IF U235 = 10, Top belt fast inserter
enabled IF U235=1

You need to feed the one extra back to the start to feed the 2nd (and so on) centrifuge, but the system runs asap (for the 2nd+n its + feedback time) and is only delayed 4 (or 6?) inserter swings per craft cycle, at the advantage of not "storing" precious ore which it doesnt realy need.

Of course you can beacon it, but this first BP doesnt use any.

I came up with a system thats only 3 wide, thus making the speed bonus uniform across all centrifuges. Thats 500% with beacons off by one tile and doesn´t waste space, which in this case would also be alot of power and modules used!
But that 2nd build has another issue, because it needs 2 belts of input and doubles the start time of the 1st two centrifuges.
All i need for that is abit of logic when feeding into the system, but im almost there.
Its just too late for delivery today, also i´d like to make both abit bigger, with sorting, storing and maybe ore refining at the start.
Once thats done, i´ll provide a full book.

I just wanted to get this out, wanted to do that for a few months now.
Let me know what you think.

One thing: the counter has no way to reset as is, so if you screw around with it mid feeding circle, it wont work. Just pick the combinator up and place the BP again, its alot faster that way.
What could also happen is, that if you cant spit out the one extra because of a full belt (full or no buffer) the upper chest goes >1 and it will in almost every case stop forever. But at that point you dont need it, you´ll have a few thousand U235 and can just build a "normal" one without logic.

I took that idea from a KathrinOfSky video, in which she shows a BP she has from Mojo iirc, and then refined it.
Its too far back to remember, i think she was someone i watched playing Factorio, even before i decided to buy the game. So if someone else deserves credit, please say so.


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Re: Kovarex process - Only take what you need!

Post by Serenity » Tue Jan 22, 2019 2:41 am

There is a way to do this with zero combinators and four inserters. It's not self-loading though, so you have to feed it one time
Kovarex.jpg
Kovarex.jpg (60.45 KiB) Viewed 942 times
The blue belt above is not continuous! It's just those two tiles for each centrifuge. The bottom belt contains the U-238 on the upper lane and outputs U-235 on the bottom lane.
Connect the belt to the U-235 filter inserter with red wire. And the filter inserter to the output stack inserter with green wire. Set the belt to "read belt contents" and "hold". Set the filter inserter to "read hand contents", "hold" and "enabled if Everything = 0". Also set its stack size to 1! Set the stack inserter to "Everything = 0" as well.

The filter inserter will then remove U-235 when the belt is empty, which means that a cycle has just finished or is underway. And the stack inserter only puts U-235 on the belt when the filter inserter is not holding anything, which prevents the process from overflowing when the output belt is backed up.
So if you feed it once with exactly 40 U-235 the filter inserter will output the 1 produced U-235 and then stop because the 40 get cycled through belt which blocks it. And there simply isn't more U-235 in the system, so it can't take 80

Not my idea. Saw it on YouTube, but I added the condition for the stack inserter, because otherwise it stops working when you don't remove the U-235 all the time
Last edited by Serenity on Sat Mar 02, 2019 4:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Kovarex process - Only take what you need!

Post by GrumpyJoe » Tue Jan 22, 2019 6:37 am

Serenity wrote:
Tue Jan 22, 2019 2:41 am
It's not self-loading though, so you have to feed it one time
I guess that goes for every iteration you build?
I think i saw that one. And the motivation behind mine is, that you don´t have to touch it before its filled, backed up and ready to rebuild with out any circuit magic because it breaks and you dont know why :D

Would have never thought of it tho, i always forget there is counting on belts, so i never use it. Should change that, something to learn ;)
Could you post a BP?

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Re: Kovarex process - Only take what you need!

Post by Serenity » Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:34 am

Later :)

Both ways have their appeal. I don't mind feeding it once. And yes, it has to be done for each one as each unit is self-contained. There are times when I'd like self-feeding setup with some logic, but then I see how complicated most of them are...

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Re: Kovarex process - Only take what you need!

Post by GrumpyJoe » Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:45 am

Serenity wrote:
Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:34 am
Later :)

There are times when I'd like self-feeding setup with some logic, but then I see how complicated most of them are...
You haven´t seen my version thats 3 wide for beacons :D

seriously tho, if you dont mind some extra inserters and combinators compared to "yours" (which i think are perfectly fine for such an expensive item, in a factory that you re most likly not copy&paste that build multiple times over your factory, like iron) its pretty simple.
Just a few more iron for undergrounds, and it actually uses less inserters. will work on it tonight

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Re: Kovarex process - Only take what you need!

Post by Serenity » Tue Jan 22, 2019 2:10 pm

Here it is with two units, to make clear that the upper belt doesn't run between all the centrifuges


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Re: Kovarex process - Only take what you need!

Post by Trebor » Tue Jan 22, 2019 6:56 pm

Can someone explain why you would use a stack inserter instead of a fast inserter if you’re just going to override the stack size to one anyway? I will accept OCD as an answer.

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Re: Kovarex process - Only take what you need!

Post by disentius » Tue Jan 22, 2019 7:08 pm

For those interested: more Kovarex
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=62778

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Re: Kovarex process - Only take what you need!

Post by Serenity » Tue Jan 22, 2019 7:13 pm

You mean me? The stack inserters aren't changed. The filter inserter has it set to 1

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Re: Kovarex process - Only take what you need!

Post by Trebor » Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:11 pm

Sorry, must’ve mis-read.

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Re: Kovarex process - Only take what you need!

Post by GrumpyJoe » Wed Jan 23, 2019 6:16 pm

disentius wrote:
Tue Jan 22, 2019 7:08 pm
For those interested: more Kovarex
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=62778
great, not the only one concerned with 40 unneeded storage. 8-)
will have a closer look over the weekend, wont even have time to finish mine

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Re: Kovarex process - Only take what you need!

Post by disentius » Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:04 pm

A spoiler:
Dumb Kovarex smaller.PNG
Dumb Kovarex smaller.PNG (311.7 KiB) Viewed 774 times
:mrgreen:

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Re: Kovarex process - Only take what you need!

Post by GrumpyJoe » Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:00 pm

disentius wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:04 pm
A spoiler:
:?:

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