Yet Another Kovarex Arrangement - But this time with a diagram

[Locane]

I haven't looked at the forums at all for circuitry solutions, so I'm sure this can be improved (and I'd love to hear constructive feedback on how).

Originally my Kovarex arrangement was based on timing a yellow grabber snagging exactly 1 U-235 off of a belt out of the back of a centrifuge with blue belts:


This obviously had problems where a centrifuge would not get enough U-235 or get clogged when the ultimate output bin was full, forcing me to go over the entire array of 40 or whatever of them and manually fix each one.

I upgraded to using circuitry to count the U-235s, and that prevented under feeding, but it had the problem of getting clogged still, where the count would get off somehow and it would stop operating because the grabber had only counted to 26 or something but hadn't filled the centrifuge.

I wanted a way to count up to 40 exactly, but then dump extra U-235 in to the output bin if something went wrong and the belt was clogged again. I think I've done that with these timer sets.

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I don't know if anyone has documented the wire connections like I have here though - the posts I have seen just have blueprint links, and loading them up in an online blueprint viewer is better than nothing, but I found I couldn't click in to see the settings on each Decider Combinator.


In the image, I'm using red and green lines to indicate red or green wires.
Round ends are input side.
Diamond ends are output side.

A Text Explanation
All of the circuitry is decision making to manipulate the "Out Gate" on the belt.

There are two timers:
1. Group 1 counts to 40 U-235, and opens the Out Gate for 500 ticks.
- The inserter is stopped while this timer is running
- It resets at the end of 500 ticks

2. Group 2 checks to see if there is U-235 present in the In Gate, if there is, it starts a 400 tick timer.
- If the timer is greater than 100 but less than 400, it opens the Out Gate
- If U-235 leaves the presence of In Gate at any time, the timer resets

Honestly it seems so simple written out like that, but it was a lot of trial and error to put together and actually implement. Factorio circuits / combinators are really unintuitive. I might make a post about how I feel like they could be improved at some point.

[Tertius]

11 combinators seem a bit excessive. If you want to insert exactly 40 U-235, why don't you directly count what has been inserted and subtract that from what should be inserted?

I discuss a setup with 1 centrifuge, one input inserter and one output inserter. (That's not enough inserters, but it's the part that handles the 40 U-235)

Initial setup: 1 centrifuge, a belt at one side, one output stack inserter at the start of the belt and one input stack inserter next to it on the next tile further down the belt, so what's been output can directly been inserted again.

Start the circuits with a constant combinator that has S=40. That's the size of the stack we'd like to insert. Wire it to the inserter that's inserting U-235 and set it to "set stack size" with stack size S. As activation condition set S > 0, so it only operates if there is really something to insert.

Additionally, set it to "read hand content" and "pulse", so we read what has just been picked up. Feed this signal to an arithmetic combinator with U-235 * -1 and output S. Wire this to a counter (decider combinator, loop back output to input). This counter will count in negative what has been inserted so far, as signal S. As condition, set U-238=0.

Now wire the output inserter to the input of the counter and set it to "read hand content" and "pulse". No condition. This is the counter reset. Whenever a production cycle has finished, U-235 and U-238 will be extracted by this inserter. In this moment, the 2 U-238 will reset the counter and inserting U-235 starts again.

Now we just need to connect the output of the counter to the input inserter, so its value is subtracted from 40, giving the actual amount of U-235 we still need to insert. Take heed of wire colors to not feed the S=40 from the constant combinator into the counter, so this connection has to be a different wire color than all the others.

That's the approach. This works in general, I tested it. I don't give a screenshot, so you can build this setup yourself, but if you want a screenshot/blueprint, I'm happy to provide one.

However, now comes the fun - the fine tuning. The draft is not yet working perfectly. For example, the last 3 U-235 aren't picked up by the input inserter, because the counting is too fast. Stack size is subtracted as soon as items are picked up, not delivered. So it's reducing the stack size too soon, while picking up is still in progress. A fix is to wire the belt piece after the input inserter with the same wires the inserter has, and set it to activate only if S=0. This way the uranium is stalled on the belt until everything has been picked up.

There is more work to do. You have to arrange for congestion-free U-238 flow. The 2 U-238 from the centrifuge must flow freely and not congest the U-235 belt lane. A 3rd inserter for U-238 is required to insert U-238 independently. It's required anyway, because if S=0, not even U-238 is inserted. This is probably best put with a 2nd belt that handles the U-238 flow and supply.

And it has to be arranged for tiling (more centrifuges). May be it can be built so there is only 1 constant combinator for the whole factory. The 2 other combinators have to be per-centrifuge.

And the initial U-235 fill. The setup is auto-starting and auto-running, if you feed the U-235 belt with the U-235 from standard uranium processing.
However it only works continuously, if one additional set of 40 U-235 is added. Otherwise, the centrifuge is inactive for a few seconds while the output is fed back into the input. It can be inserted manually, or you can set the constant combinator to 80 and add an additional counter that is counting to -40 once and never reset, so it's reducing the 80 to 40 permanently after the initial count.

[Loewchen]

You can build this with only a single decider combinator as memory that resets when 238 is put out, the input inserter gets the insert condition.

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[Tertius]

You're cheating! Nobody uses stack filter inserters.
However, this is so simple and elegant, I might even employ this solution myself. Usually, I don't care about the magic 40 and just insert until the centrifuge is full.

On second thought, this solution might not be stable. If you have more than 1 centrifuge, it can happen one centrifuge has finished its cycle and the one lone U-235 it generated is running down the belt. Imagine, it is now below the top right inserter of the next centrifuge. If this centrifuge is finishing its own cycle this very moment and its inserters are starting to extract the products, the input inserter is activated. It picks the lone U-235 and begins swinging immediately, because the bulk of its own U-235 is yet 1 belt piece away. This takes time. When it swings back, it might be some U-235 has already passed the inserter, so it isn't able to grab 40 U-235. Or is the red belt used on purpose, because it is so slow that this situation cannot happen?

[Loewchen]

After swapping the 238 input inserter with the 235 output one I am no longer able to trigger this underfeed situation, the inserter is either not active yet and lets the single 235 pass or it waits long enough to pick up the rest as well.

[Locane]

You're cheating! Nobody uses stack filter inserters.
However, this is so simple and elegant, I might even employ this solution myself. Usually, I don't care about the magic 40 and just insert until the centrifuge is full.

On second thought, this solution might not be stable. If you have more than 1 centrifuge, it can happen one centrifuge has finished its cycle and the one lone U-235 it generated is running down the belt. Imagine, it is now below the top right inserter of the next centrifuge. If this centrifuge is finishing its own cycle this very moment and its inserters are starting to extract the products, the input inserter is activated. It picks the lone U-235 and begins swinging immediately, because the bulk of its own U-235 is yet 1 belt piece away. This takes time. When it swings back, it might be some U-235 has already passed the inserter, so it isn't able to grab 40 U-235. Or is the red belt used on purpose, because it is so slow that this situation cannot happen?

Lol thank you for the kind words.

The belts you're referring to aren't connected - the input/output belt for each centrifuge is completely independent of the main output belt that the U-235's fall on to.

[Locane]

You can build this with only a single decider combinator as memory that resets when 238 is put out, the input inserter gets the insert condition.

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Thanks for the feedback, can you show me a larger version of this? How is it meant to work? I played with it in my game, it looks like you expect the belts to loop a belt full of a combination of U-235 and 238?

I'm attempting to avoid "buffer items" as much as possible with my solution.

[Locane]

There is more work to do. You have to arrange for congestion-free U-238 flow. The 2 U-238 from the centrifuge must flow freely and not congest the U-235 belt lane. A 3rd inserter for U-238 is required to insert U-238 independently. It's required anyway, because if S=0, not even U-238 is inserted. This is probably best put with a 2nd belt that handles the U-238 flow and supply.

And it has to be arranged for tiling (more centrifuges). May be it can be built so there is only 1 constant combinator for the whole factory. The 2 other combinators have to be per-centrifuge.

And the initial U-235 fill. The setup is auto-starting and auto-running, if you feed the U-235 belt with the U-235 from standard uranium processing.
However it only works continuously, if one additional set of 40 U-235 is added. Otherwise, the centrifuge is inactive for a few seconds while the output is fed back into the input. It can be inserted manually, or you can set the constant combinator to 80 and add an additional counter that is counting to -40 once and never reset, so it's reducing the 80 to 40 permanently after the initial count.

It sounds like your solution still has some kinks to work out?

I agree that 11 combinators is a lot, but since I'm kinda new at this it's the only way I could think of to get two timers and an AND statement (the > 100 but less than 400 in Group 2).

[disentius]

here is a "practical" application:)

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input belt: U235 top, U238 Bottom.

Since we cant read the centrifuge, the solutions have to be based on counting somehow. The dirty trick used here is using the property that the centrifuge always puts out the U238 first...
So this is a memory cell that counts all U235 coming in, as long as there is no U238 going out. then it resets to 0. the input inserter stops inserting when the U235 count is 40.
putting the U235 output before the input inserter ensures (in most cases) that it uses its own output first. the priority routing of the U238 back to the belt makes sure there is no stalling on to much U238.

[SoShootMe]

After a lot of experimentation with combinators I've slowly but surely moved towards the idea of "less is more". The blueprint below - a mixture of my own ideas and some inspiration from others - uses just one arithmetic combinator and one constant combinator. Feed it separate or unsorted belts of U-235 and U-238, and you get a sorted output belt once the first 40 U-235 have made it to the centrifuge. Add speed modules and beacons to taste. Downsides I know of are that it will not work correctly with productivity modules, and cannot run continuously due to looping 40 U-235 (duty cycle depends on beacons/modules and inserter capacity bonus research).

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Explanation

• The incoming belt(s) first get sorted via a U-238 buffer. That buffer allows uranium processing to continue in order to accumulate 40 U-235.
• The filter inserter loading from the belt, arithmetic combinator and constant combinator work together. The filter inserter is set to stack size of 1 (to ensure it does not pick up too many), set filters from the circuit network and pulse its hand contents. The arithmetic combinator counts the total U-235 inserted into the centrifuge from the belt. When it reaches 40, adding the U-235 value in the constant combinator causes overflow resulting in the filter inserter only loading U-238 forever afterwards. The arithmetic combinator output also both enables the belt immediately after the filter inserter, notably allowing U-235 from uranium processing to flow, and disables the inserters filling the U-238 buffer.
• The input priority on the splitter on the output side of the buffer results in the buffer emptying itself over time.
• The regular and stack inserters that output from the centrifuge are connected; various behaviours align perfectly using their conditions alone, mostly relating to the sequence of events when the centrifuge cycle completes:
  • While the centrifuge is active, the regular inserter is disabled and the stack inserter is (usually) enabled.
  • When the centrifuge cycle completes, the stack inserter will first pick up the two U-238, pulsing the circuit network. Also, the filter inserter may top up U-238 from the belt.
  • The stack inserter's pulse enables the regular inserter momentarily. At this point there are only U-235 in the centrifuge, and with stack size set to one, it will pick up a single U-235.
  • That inserter is set to output its hand contents in hold mode, which causes the stack inserter to be disabled. This means the stack inserter will stay disabled if the output belt is full, and the centrifuge will stay idle.
  • When the regular inserter drops the U-235, the stack inserter is enabled again, and starts to output the remaining 40 U-235 to be reinserted.
  • The U-238 output ends up in the chest to be reinserted into the centrifuge. This means it will "beat" U-238 being inserted from the belt, so it doesn't build up or cause a jam.