[MOD 0.17+] Industrial Revolution (0.99.x)

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frugal10191
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Re: [MOD 0.17+] Industrial Revolution (0.99.x)

Post by frugal10191 » Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:33 pm

It looks like the latest Krastorio update has broken the Green science recipe. Yesterday Green Science was Glass Ingots and Bronze tubes. Today after updating it is Transport Belts and Burner Inserters.
If I load up the game with just IR (no other mods), the Green science recipe is correct (Tubes and Glass), however if I add Krastorio back in, the Green science recipe changes to Belts and inserters.

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Re: [MOD 0.17+] Industrial Revolution (0.99.x)

Post by Deadlock989 » Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:35 pm

frugal10191 wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:33 pm
It looks like the latest Krastorio update has broken the Green science recipe. Yesterday Green Science was Glass Ingots and Bronze tubes. Today after updating it is Transport Belts and Burner Inserters.
If I load up the game with just IR (no other mods), the Green science recipe is correct (Tubes and Glass), however if I add Krastorio back in, the Green science recipe changes to Belts and inserters.
Sounds like a thing for the Krastorio guys to me. Krastorio adds compatibility for IR, not the other way round.

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Re: [MOD 0.17+] Industrial Revolution (0.99.x)

Post by frugal10191 » Mon Sep 09, 2019 5:04 pm

Deadlock989 wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:35 pm

Sounds like a thing for the Krastorio guys to me. Krastorio adds compatibility for IR, not the other way round.
Ah, my bad... I had not realised that Krastorio has just added a Mod Option to determine which science recipes to use. The "Settings -> Mod Settings" for Krastorio now has a drop down for each of the sciences that let you choose from "Factorio", "Krastorio", "Industrial Revolution". If I change the option from "Krastorio" to "Industrial Revolution" then the recipes are as before.

PEBCAK. My apologies for raising a non-issue.

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Re: [MOD 0.17+] Industrial Revolution (0.99.x)

Post by enchant » Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:32 pm

Sorry if this has been reported before. I haven't read the entire thread.

I've got a copper assembler producing copper capped beams. On the left is a belt containing wooden beams and copper plate. On the right is a belt containing coal and copper rivets. I think what's happening is that the assembler needs fuel. The inserter on the left grabs some wooden beams and feeds it to it for fuel. At the same time, the inserter on the right grabs coal. But the fuel hopper contains wooden beams and can't accept the coal. So now that inserter on the right has its mouth full and can no longer feed copper rivets to the assembler.

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Re: [MOD 0.17+] Industrial Revolution (0.99.x)

Post by Rithordus » Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:41 pm

enchant wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:32 pm
Sorry if this has been reported before. I haven't read the entire thread.

I've got a copper assembler producing copper capped beams. On the left is a belt containing wooden beams and copper plate. On the right is a belt containing coal and copper rivets. I think what's happening is that the assembler needs fuel. The inserter on the left grabs some wooden beams and feeds it to it for fuel. At the same time, the inserter on the right grabs coal. But the fuel hopper contains wooden beams and can't accept the coal. So now that inserter on the right has its mouth full and can no longer feed copper rivets to the assembler.
This is easily fixed by putting some coal in first so that's its designated fuel type. Nothing wrong with the mod here, it's just wooden beams have a fuel value.

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Re: [MOD 0.17+] Industrial Revolution (0.99.x)

Post by mac_ol » Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:42 pm

I was about seven hours into my first game and then i gave up.
Maybe i missed something but i think i need some of those saplings for rubber production.
I found plenty of regular saplings but none of the rubber ones...
I explored on the monowheel for over a hour after that i deinstalled the mod.

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Re: [MOD 0.17+] Industrial Revolution (0.99.x)

Post by Solinya » Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:58 pm

One thing about signals is I saw you added a few new signals to the game and arranged them in a more aesthetically pleasing rainbow pattern. However, the color priority of the signals still matches that of vanilla. So if I run multiple colors to a light, red overwrites green which overwrites blue which overwrites yellow, etc. (Why vanilla chooses to have green > blue > yellow I don't know, and it's a bit of a pain. Yellow tends to be more important than green or blue.)

Why are multiple colors going to one light? Well, one example is using lamps hooked to train signals to warn about oncoming trains, since rail signals are kinda hard to see when driving around zoomed out. Another example would be using multi-colored storage (green is full, yellow medium, red running out and there's an impending resource bottleneck).

I can work around the signal priority with combinators, but if I recall right, when Dectorio and similar mods added new colors, they also re-arranged the signal priority to match the order the colors are listed on the signal page. So in Dectorio, the priority is red > orange > yellow > green > blue > etc.

Since you added new colors and rearranged their display order on the signal pane, have you considered also changing the signal priority to match?

It would be a QoL improvement to be able to continue using the signal pane to tell which colors have precedence instead of needing to memorize the vanilla pattern and then figuring out where orange, magenta, and blue all fall in relation to each other.
enchant wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:32 pm
Sorry if this has been reported before. I haven't read the entire thread.

I've got a copper assembler producing copper capped beams. On the left is a belt containing wooden beams and copper plate. On the right is a belt containing coal and copper rivets. I think what's happening is that the assembler needs fuel. The inserter on the left grabs some wooden beams and feeds it to it for fuel. At the same time, the inserter on the right grabs coal. But the fuel hopper contains wooden beams and can't accept the coal. So now that inserter on the right has its mouth full and can no longer feed copper rivets to the assembler.
Btw, natural rubber is also a fuel, so be aware of that when you set up your natural rubber production. You probably don't want to be burning rubber to process rubber.
mac_ol wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:42 pm
I was about seven hours into my first game and then i gave up.
Maybe i missed something but i think i need some of those saplings for rubber production.
I found plenty of regular saplings but none of the rubber ones...
I explored on the monowheel for over a hour after that i deinstalled the mod.
I don't know if you know this, but rubber trees are a different color on the map. A more yellow-ish green than regular trees. So you don't have to run around chopping regular trees once you have wood production going and that lets you focus your rubber sapling-finding efforts. For my game the ratio was roughly one small rubber sapling grove for each three regular forests, so I got the tenth sapling in under 20 minutes with the monowheel (and I was spending a lot of time just exploring the map).

But we were using higher moisture and default tree/water settings. If you have a lot of desert or fewer trees it might be harder.

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Re: [MOD 0.17+] Industrial Revolution (0.99.x)

Post by enchant » Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:07 pm

Rithordus wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:41 pm
This is easily fixed by putting some coal in first so that's its designated fuel type. Nothing wrong with the mod here, it's just wooden beams have a fuel value.
Is this something that can also happen with vanilla? Seems kinda kludgy, because once I get bots going, I'm going to want to copy/paste sections, but I have to worry about quickly feeding the "right" fuel before it gets the wrong fuel?

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Re: [MOD 0.17+] Industrial Revolution (0.99.x)

Post by Shpaget » Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:08 pm

I had to make an account to say thanks.
I love the mod. It got me back into playing Factorio, so after a few hours of figuring stuff out, I finally have a boiler and a steam engine. Unlocking electric inserters should make things easier, but man, the burner phase sure makes you scratch your head while figuring out how to deliver everything and take stuff out of assemblers.

Thanks Deadlock, it's awesome!

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Re: [MOD 0.17+] Industrial Revolution (0.99.x)

Post by Rithordus » Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:15 pm

enchant wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:07 pm
Rithordus wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:41 pm
This is easily fixed by putting some coal in first so that's its designated fuel type. Nothing wrong with the mod here, it's just wooden beams have a fuel value.
Is this something that can also happen with vanilla? Seems kinda kludgy, because once I get bots going, I'm going to want to copy/paste sections, but I have to worry about quickly feeding the "right" fuel before it gets the wrong fuel?
By the time you get to bots, you "should" have upgraded your assemblers to electric, in which case fuel values won't matter.

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Re: [MOD 0.17+] Industrial Revolution (0.99.x)

Post by Deadlock989 » Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:17 pm

enchant wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:07 pm
Rithordus wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:41 pm
This is easily fixed by putting some coal in first so that's its designated fuel type. Nothing wrong with the mod here, it's just wooden beams have a fuel value.
Is this something that can also happen with vanilla? Seems kinda kludgy, because once I get bots going, I'm going to want to copy/paste sections, but I have to worry about quickly feeding the "right" fuel before it gets the wrong fuel?
It can't happen in vanilla because there are no burner assemblers and the burner phase is blink-and-you'll-miss-it anyway, I have wondered sometimes why burner inserters are even in the game, I rarely used them in vanilla.

Rithordus is right, but it's also true that this is quite annoying behaviour. I don't really have a good answer right now. There aren't any easy solutions to it, they are all drastic:

1. Get rid of burner assemblers. Hand-craft your way to the Iron Age. Yeah, no.

2. Take the fuel value off wooden beams. Raw wood is only used in two recipes: making wooden beams, and making big wooden poles. The latter is an Iron Age tech anyway so you've got, or are close to getting, electric inserters by then. It means that once wood is turned into a beam, it's somehow immune to fire.

3. Get rid of wooden beams and probably other flammable stuff too. Have capped beams be the same kind of hunk of ingot as all the post-iron beams. Yawn.

The only one that I can think of which isn't so drastic: put up with slightly idiosyncratic behaviour from inserters occasionally and temporarily, and/or be aware that working with flammable components and burner machinery requires a watchful eye sometimes and a mind on how you pre-fuel the machines. I dunno, roleplay that their tiny clockworks minds are very small and get things wrong sometimes.

If anyone can think of a better way of eliminating this I'm well up for it, but my gut feeling is it's not possible without losing a lot more than you gain because it's already bending the vanilla paradigm to breaking point.
Last edited by Deadlock989 on Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: [MOD 0.17+] Industrial Revolution (0.99.x)

Post by Deadlock989 » Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:17 pm

Rithordus wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:15 pm
By the time you get to bots, you "should" have upgraded your assemblers to electric, in which case fuel values won't matter.
There are burner bots.

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Re: [MOD 0.17+] Industrial Revolution (0.99.x)

Post by Deadlock989 » Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:18 pm

Shpaget wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:08 pm
I had to make an account to say thanks.
I love the mod. It got me back into playing Factorio, so after a few hours of figuring stuff out, I finally have a boiler and a steam engine. Unlocking electric inserters should make things easier, but man, the burner phase sure makes you scratch your head while figuring out how to deliver everything and take stuff out of assemblers.

Thanks Deadlock, it's awesome!
Really nice to read. Welcome to the forum.

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Re: [MOD 0.17+] Industrial Revolution (0.99.x)

Post by Deadlock989 » Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:20 pm

Solinya wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:58 pm
Since you added new colors and rearranged their display order on the signal pane, have you considered also changing the signal priority to match?
I hadn't considered this. I wire up multiple colours all the time. Shows you how accomplished my bases have been while simultaneously trying to balance everything. Besides, show me a rainbow and I go all soppy and forget what I was doing.

What you're saying makes perfect sense, but it would have to be done ASAP, before 1.0.0, so it doesn't screw too many people over. Will fit it in.

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Re: [MOD 0.17+] Industrial Revolution (0.99.x)

Post by Bilka » Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:35 pm

No lamps needed for rainbows.
Image
I'm an admin over at https://wiki.factorio.com. Feel free to contact me if there's anything wrong (or right) with it.

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Re: [MOD 0.17+] Industrial Revolution (0.99.x)

Post by Deadlock989 » Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:40 pm

Deadlock989 wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:20 pm
Besides, show me a rainbow laser and I go all soppy and forget what I was doing.

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Re: [MOD 0.17+] Industrial Revolution (0.99.x)

Post by fishycat » Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:45 pm

Deadlock989 wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:17 pm
I have wondered sometimes why burner inserters are even in the game, I rarely used them in vanilla.

I find them super useful for my boilers. Normal inserters using power can fail in case the overall power decreases to a point, where they aren't able to fuel the boilers anymore. That's where the burner inserters shine - given there's enough fuel available.

Deadlock989 wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:17 pm
2. Take the fuel value off wooden beams. Raw wood is only used in two recipes: making wooden beams, and making big wooden poles. The latter is an Iron Age tech anyway so you've got, or are close to getting, electric inserters by then. It means that once wood is turned into a beam, it's somehow immune to fire.

Maybe by adding another step in stoneage, where the beams get treated with liquid copper, that needs smelting in the stone furnace first. And so somehow they could be immune to fire, maybe!? :D

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Re: [MOD 0.17+] Industrial Revolution (0.99.x)

Post by McDuff » Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:56 pm

Just came to ask where to find rubber trees, I see that the RNG is kind of a dick about that sometimes. Am getting mauled by biters looking for them but I'll perservere. Would be good if they could be put in the starting area with a bit more frequency, maybe?

ETA or maybe make the clumps/groves bigger. I've managed to find one rubber sapling so far lol.

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Re: [MOD 0.17+] Industrial Revolution (0.99.x)

Post by Deadlock989 » Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:59 pm

fishycat wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:45 pm
I find them super useful for my boilers. Normal inserters using power can fail in case the overall power decreases to a point, where they aren't able to fuel the boilers anymore. That's where the burner inserters shine - given there's enough fuel available.
It's that last bit that turned me off burner inserters for boilers for good. Some biter nibbles on the power pole that's supplying your coal from a mile away without you realising and suddenly your whole base is dead and won't restart without manual intervention because the burner inserters are all starved. It's a toss-up between whether that's more annoying than the Slowed-Down Yellow Inserter Spiral Of Doom or not, but for me, doom spiral was less maddening and at least gives you a head's-up. Different tastes.
Maybe by adding another step in stoneage, where the beams get treated with liquid copper, that needs smelting in the stone furnace first. And so somehow they could be immune to fire, maybe!? :D
Liquid metals were on the cards at one point (though it was an endgame tech). I got quite far into it before binning it, it added surprisingly little to entertainment value and stretched plausibility, would require heavy scripting for any kind of realism which I want to keep out of the mod as far as possible for performance reasons. Early game charcoal/coke/creosote also, thought about creosote-treated wood for fire-proofing before realising there was absolutely nothing to do with wood really. Early game fluids also quite hard when you don't have access to iron pipes, and you refuse point blank to retint vanilla entity assets, and the small fact that making original pipe graphics and all the connections they need is literally brain-pickling and makes me want to punch things. Wood was a full material/component generator, with planks and sticks as well as beams. There were stone plates and even stone gears in the very earliest versions. They all went to data heaven.
Last edited by Deadlock989 on Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: [MOD 0.17+] Industrial Revolution (0.99.x)

Post by NickKsh » Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:01 pm

Started today and after this craft I realized what awaits me :o

Image

Great mod, great idea. Thank you kindly Deadlock, you bring me back to factorio <3

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