Update 2019-4-11, version 0.3.3:
- Scripting bugfixes. Use add_research to set starting tech, check valid_for_read on item stacks.
That is indeed the problem. Your calculations are off
I actually quite liked the stupidly expensive steel cost of mk2 building in (default) marathon settings. It makes it a meaningful choice between getting the landfill together to go wide with mk1 buildings, or paying the extra to go up with mk2+.
Perhaps the petroleum liquid fuel values could be increased. I base the sea block liquid values on Angel's solid fuel recipes, an example shown on the left in the image below: The recipe on the right is the base game solid fuel recipe, which is also used in regular (non-angels) Bob's mods.rain9441 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:03 amI'd also like to recommend the power situation be looked at with a little bit more scrutiny. The (inadvertant?) changes to charcoal give green algae more power which (IMO) is a nice addition as the old system. The 0.16 green algae was very much a joyless grind for typical players. It still has the challenge of making a loop and supporting itself. Arboretums are currently the only real option for power beyond green algae. Charcoal was buffed so arboretums also got buffed. Fuel oil was nerfed (from 900kj/u to 500kj/u) which makes early farm based power no longer a reasonable option. Charcoal is twice as effective, oil is near half as effective; this created a 4x discrepancy from previous version balance.
Enriched fuel blocks are nerfed so hard that they are also not even a viable option to produce. I don't really see why this happened. It is the only early'ish power source that requires blue science and gave way for using beacons - it also gave farms an upgrade path.
Rocket boosters are currently the #1 choice for early game power, but it is questionable because Arboretums do just fine without any of the complexity.
Without the farm -> enriched fuel blocks from 0.16, the only real solution is to get nuclear early and IMHO it doesn't seem right to basically require nuclear power in the early-to-mid game.
There are, as the above post pointed out, at least two ways to produce insane amounts of power from recipes that don't have any business making power. Those should also be revisited.
Nuclear is still #1 in the end, but since it requires purple science to support I don't see how a casual seablock player will stay sane moving into the midgame. I'm sure a lot of people go the solar route, but that is likely the reason they spend 500+ hours playing seablock instead of 200 hours (It's just soooo not economical).
I'd be happy to give more details on what values might make sense for the various types of power, but for this post I wanted to keep the plea more high level.
Interesting. I wonder, if its really a problem, that angels trees are somewhat limited. I would guess, that you can find enough trees out in the sea. I somehow like this type of constraint, but only, if it works and you don't have to explore to the edge of the map. Or do they only appear in starting area? How much trees are needed for 1kspm with beacons (question to myself)minno wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:19 pmRemoving the cellulose paste and naphtha recipes for wood would leave arboretums as the only source. Wood is necessary for phenolic boards (adv circuits), polishing wheels (polished gems for modules and science), and protective scaffolding (bio science packs), but not every map has trees to build arboretums. Could you instead re-introduce the wood vs. raw wood split? Make arboretums produce "raw wood" and those other two recipes produce the existing "wood", and then allow only "raw wood" to be turned into cellulose fibers.
+1 I like rocket boosters for trainsminno wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:19 pmRocket boosters are nice for having early access to high-acceleration train fuel, but solid fuel and enriched fuel blocks are ok alternatives. You could prevent the power plants by increasing the crafting time or decreasing the fuel value until it's no longer power-positive.
Angel was contemplating about a fix a while ago
Well, I have not updated it for the 0.3.3 pack, which increased the spawn rate a lot, but for the 70k analyzed in 0.3.0 for the speedrun, 53k had no trees in a 5 chunk radius from the start, and 42k had none in a 7 chunk radius. So it's definitely possible to have absolutely no luckInteresting. I wonder, if its really a problem, that angels trees are somewhat limited. I would guess, that you can find enough trees out in the sea.