[MOD 0.13.17+] Rampant

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Veden
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[MOD 0.13.17+] Rampant

Post by Veden » Tue Aug 23, 2016 3:13 am

Rampant

[*] Name: Rampant
[*] Factorio-Version: 0.13.17+
[*] Description: Factorio Mod - Improves the enemies tactics by using potential fields/pheromones allowing probing of defenses, retreats, reinforcements, counterattacking, breaching, raids, rallying death cry, and player hunting. Uses nonhoming blockable biter projectiles. Adds new Enemies (disabled by default). Can completely replace the vanilla AI. Difficulty setting in mod options menu.
[*] License: Apache 2.0
[*] Release: 2016-08-21
[*] Website: https://mods.factorio.com/mods/Veden/Rampant
[*] Github
[*] Category: Gameplay
[*] Author: Veden
Last edited by Veden on Sat Nov 02, 2019 8:25 pm, edited 152 times in total.

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Re: [MOD 0.13.17] Rampant - 0.0.4

Post by Veden » Tue Aug 23, 2016 5:24 am

TheSAguy: You noted future plans for tunnelers.. For some reason I'm just not the biggest fan of that. Maybe if I see it in action.

But that got me thinking, you could implement the following.
When the biters attack, some could bury themselves. This could give those biters very high resistances, thus keeping turret fire on them while others can get closer and attack.

Or, if they flee they could bury themselves, thus becoming invisible till reinforcements arrive them emerge. Or Ambush the player. Surprise!

The following is probably not feasible they they could chain link to bridge water. Ants do it in nature, form a living bridge to cross water :)
I was thinking that the biters would be able to make a land bridge by filling tiles by using their bodies. I haven't attempted to make this yet though.

The tunnelers would only be able to move one or two chunks worth of distance at most, so really they would only be able to breach a wall + turret layer at a time.

The burying biters would have to trigger on entity death much like the retreat otherwise I don't know of a way to tell they are actually being attacked.
TheSAguy: Okay, been playing for about 3 hours with this Mod installed.
It's tough.

I'm playing with RSO and thus have to have many outposts. My biggest problem is keeping my outposts powered.

The Biters keep targeting the power and I can't keep them up...
I don't mind defending my outposts, but the miles of track to them is a little hard. (Well, my track is safe, it's just the power.)

I might have to include Power poles as a "Safe" item, so the biters won't kill it...

What are other people experiencing?

Love the mod though! :)
P.S. MOD Portal sucks for communication/feedback/bug reports. Open a post on the forums ;)
I would have to agree, I have been making separate power grids at mining locations to combat the issue.
Something like KS_Power gives a couple alternatives to water and coal importing.
I was thinking about maybe adding something that uses biter corpses to make electricity

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Re: [MOD 0.13.17] Rampant - 0.0.4

Post by Berkys32 » Tue Aug 23, 2016 5:58 am

Biters attacked my outposts too, but I have few batteries and solar panels on each outpost, so they were safe before I added laser turrets to every big pole. Luckyly my outposts are just few chunks away from my base, so it wasnt so hard to repair and strenghten my power supply...

To my bug - Im getting it after some time, not just after loading. But every time in same moment - like when they want to attack or something. I just switch your mod on again and I see what happens

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Re: [MOD 0.13.17] Rampant - 0.0.4

Post by Adil » Tue Aug 23, 2016 8:50 am

Oh, you've made it to the forums, I'd like to express my 'like' of this mod.
Also, you probably should put crosslinks in a visible spot both here and on the portal.
I do mods. Modding wiki is friend, it teaches how to mod. Api docs is friend too...
I also update mods, some of them even work.
Recently I did a mod tutorial.

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Re: [MOD 0.13.17] Rampant - 0.0.4

Post by doktorstick » Tue Aug 23, 2016 6:35 pm

I played a little last night with NE+Rampant+RSO. There are two observations--the first is about Rampant and the other I'm not sure about.

1) The tactical retreat makes it too easy to fend off waves of aliens. Previously, waves would swarm your defenses, possible damaging or destroying walls and turrets. Now, after the first prolonged volley of fire, the aliens retreat. Very shortly, they will come back... a few die to the next volley and they retreat, ad infinitum, until they original wave is dead.

This behavior also applies to turret pushing.

2) I like that aggressive action on my part (hunting bases) causes other nearby (and sometimes not so nearby) bases to send reinforcements. I was surprised when I was taking on a nest when a stream of aliens flanked me. After that I started paying attention to the minimap and I see reinforcements frequently coming to aid the nest.

As for tunneling biters, I think that would turn defense into an exercise in frustration. Gameplay testing will tell the tale, ultimately, but that's my gut feeling.
Hacked Splitters - the mod prophesied to bring balance to the belts

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Re: [MOD 0.13.17] Rampant - 0.0.4

Post by TheSAguy » Tue Aug 23, 2016 8:52 pm

So after thinking about it, I'm going to make the Big Wooden Pole from Bio Industries act like the rail that regenerates.
My logic, the biters thinks its a tree :)

Image

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Re: [MOD 0.13.17] Rampant - 0.0.4

Post by Berkys32 » Wed Aug 24, 2016 6:26 am

I found another bug - it seems your mod is not compatible with mods that add another surface - like factorissimo Im using. It seems that I got crash everytime Im inside and biters try to attack me (and cant find me)
Sadly Im not able to reproduce this bug anymore, those beast dont want to attack me again...

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Re: [MOD 0.13.17] Rampant - 0.0.4

Post by Berkys32 » Wed Aug 24, 2016 6:32 am

TheSAguy wrote:So after thinking about it, I'm going to make the Big Wooden Pole from Bio Industries act like the rail that regenerates.
My logic, the biters thinks its a tree :)

Image
So I can make wooden wall all around my base and Im safe...

EDIT: Sorry, I just saw picture and thought you were talking about wall, not poles...

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Re: [MOD 0.13.17] Rampant - 0.0.4

Post by Veden » Thu Aug 25, 2016 12:18 am

TheSAguy wrote:So after thinking about it, I'm going to make the Big Wooden Pole from Bio Industries act like the rail that regenerates.
My logic, the biters thinks its a tree :)

Image
Sounds like a plan to me
doktorstick wrote:I played a little last night with NE+Rampant+RSO. There are two observations--the first is about Rampant and the other I'm not sure about.

1) The tactical retreat makes it too easy to fend off waves of aliens. Previously, waves would swarm your defenses, possible damaging or destroying walls and turrets. Now, after the first prolonged volley of fire, the aliens retreat. Very shortly, they will come back... a few die to the next volley and they retreat, ad infinitum, until they original wave is dead.

This behavior also applies to turret pushing.

2) I like that aggressive action on my part (hunting bases) causes other nearby (and sometimes not so nearby) bases to send reinforcements. I was surprised when I was taking on a nest when a stream of aliens flanked me. After that I started paying attention to the minimap and I see reinforcements frequently coming to aid the nest.

As for tunneling biters, I think that would turn defense into an exercise in frustration. Gameplay testing will tell the tale, ultimately, but that's my gut feeling.
What level was your evolution at?

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Re: [MOD 0.13.17] Rampant - 0.0.4

Post by doktorstick » Thu Aug 25, 2016 1:42 am

Veden wrote:What level was your evolution at?
Unfortunately, I don't know. My evolution from the same game is now at 52%. Maybe it was around 20-30%? I haven't noticed that behavior as much anymore, but I'm also not paying attention as closely since my automated defense keeps things under control.

As an aside, do you know if it is vanilla, NE, or your mod that triggers nest attacks when a tree is chopped down? I can predictably control waves of enemies by avoiding tree hacking.
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Re: [MOD 0.13.17] Rampant - 0.0.5

Post by Veden » Thu Aug 25, 2016 2:07 am

doktorstick wrote:As an aside, do you know if it is vanilla, NE, or your mod that triggers nest attacks when a tree is chopped down? I can predictably control waves of enemies by avoiding tree hacking.
That is NE.

The retreating is based on the evolution level, so the higher it goes the more killing that is required.

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Re: [MOD 0.13.17] Rampant - 0.0.5

Post by doktorstick » Thu Aug 25, 2016 2:59 am

Here's a video[1] at 54% evolution with the retreat oscillation. This happened about 15-20 times before I decided to record the video. Eventually they decided to attack but by then their numbers were thinned substantially (you can see the pile of bodies from the previous oscillations).

That swarm attacked from the south. As you can see, I had wiped out a base so there was a lot of death in the area.

[1] The quality my not be too hot. I've never used vid.me before and I don't know how they scale 1080p captures.
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Re: [MOD 0.13.17] Rampant - 0.0.5

Post by Veden » Fri Aug 26, 2016 8:17 pm

doktorstick wrote:Here's a video[1] at 54% evolution with the retreat oscillation. This happened about 15-20 times before I decided to record the video. Eventually they decided to attack but by then their numbers were thinned substantially (you can see the pile of bodies from the previous oscillations).

That swarm attacked from the south. As you can see, I had wiped out a base so there was a lot of death in the area.

[1] The quality my not be too hot. I've never used vid.me before and I don't know how they scale 1080p captures.
No worries on the quality. I'm looking to address this with the next version. I appreciate you taking the time to make a video

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Re: [MOD 0.13.17] Rampant - 0.0.5

Post by TheSAguy » Fri Aug 26, 2016 8:46 pm

Veden wrote:
doktorstick wrote:Here's a video[1] at 54% evolution with the retreat oscillation. This happened about 15-20 times before I decided to record the video. Eventually they decided to attack but by then their numbers were thinned substantially (you can see the pile of bodies from the previous oscillations).

That swarm attacked from the south. As you can see, I had wiped out a base so there was a lot of death in the area.

[1] The quality my not be too hot. I've never used vid.me before and I don't know how they scale 1080p captures.
No worries on the quality. I'm looking to address this with the next version. I appreciate you taking the time to make a video
In my current game I have a group of probably 200+ that were scared of me after killing a few.
I think you should have a threshold, if the group is a certain size, it gets harder for them to retreat. The threshold to retreat. OR maybe have a random kamikaze where they all out attack, to try an overwhelm one.

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Re: [MOD 0.13.17] Rampant - 0.0.5

Post by Veden » Fri Aug 26, 2016 9:04 pm

TheSAguy wrote: In my current game I have a group of probably 200+ that were scared of me after killing a few.
I think you should have a threshold, if the group is a certain size, it gets harder for them to retreat. The threshold to retreat. OR maybe have a random kamikaze where they all out attack, to try an overwhelm one.
I do have some code in there for the kamikaze attacks, but it is triggering off a flat percent instead of scaling with group size or evolution. I will make that adjustment as well.

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Re: [MOD 0.13.17] Rampant - 0.0.8

Post by _ImPat » Sun Sep 04, 2016 5:34 pm

This mod doesn't do anything. No retreat, no nothing. I have disabled all mods and created a new world. :( I would really like this to work but it doesn't. If I can help in any way please tell me.
Note: Installed from mods.factorio.com(Ingame).

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Re: [MOD 0.13.17] Rampant - 0.0.8

Post by _ImPat » Sun Sep 04, 2016 7:19 pm

_ImPat wrote:This mod doesn't do anything. No retreat, no nothing. I have disabled all mods and created a new world. :( I would really like this to work but it doesn't. If I can help in any way please tell me.
Note: Installed from mods.factorio.com(Ingame).
Seems to be something with your 0.0.5 version of the mod. I just updated factorio to 0.14.3 and installed your latest version of your mod from mods.factorio.com and it is fully working. You may want to take fixing the old mod into consideration.
Thanks for this amazing mod!

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Re: [MOD 0.13.17] Rampant - 0.0.8

Post by kyranzor » Mon Sep 05, 2016 2:04 am

Hey, just wanted to say great mod! great code too, I had a look at how you had such responsive movement in your unitgroups for the retreat mechanic (which looks great in-game btw, very responsive and realistic)

It seems you tackled it by making a new unit group and adding all the members back into that new group and issuing the order to the new group, yes?

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Re: [MOD 0.13.17] Rampant - 0.0.8

Post by _ImPat » Mon Sep 05, 2016 4:13 pm

Please take a look at my discussions post on mods.factorio.com I explain what could be changed about the mod. As of right now, I don't enjoy a specific mechanic in your wonderful mod wich kind of ruins it for me.

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Re: [MOD 0.13.17] Rampant - 0.0.8

Post by TheSAguy » Mon Sep 05, 2016 4:20 pm

_ImPat wrote:Please take a look at my discussions post on mods.factorio.com I explain what could be changed about the mod. As of right now, I don't enjoy a specific mechanic in your wonderful mod wich kind of ruins it for me.
Why not just discuss it here... Much easier than the portal.

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