[MOD 1.1] Natural Evolution - All things Alien!

[orzelek]

This might not be answer you'd like... but you should have built a turret or two and let them kill the spawner for you. You are losing a lot of damage on spawner resistance and turrets have better multipliers.

[AliceTheGorgon]

Just gave it a shot with a turret firing at the spawner instead of me, and there wasn't any significant change in damage. The spawner still had about 95% of its health left after about 100 magazines of ammo.

That's probably because this is early game and I don't have any turret upgrades, because the only things I've researched so far are turrets and military 1. I don't even have splitters or assembly machines or anything yet.

The spawner also only has a 5% resistance to physical, which is higher than vanilla's 2% at this point, but that should only mean I'd need about 5% more ammo, not twenty times as much ammo.
The issue is that with NE-Enemies the spawner has 2,000 health, but without NE-Enemies it only has 350 health.

Also, but I'm not 100% sure on this part, I suspect that spawners regen a percentage of their health when they regen, and not a flat amount, so even though back of the envelope math says that ~230 magazines should do the job based on the ratio of health to magazines from vanilla, 100 magazines still doesn't get anywhere near the halfway mark because of regen being proportionally higher too.

[TheSAguy]

Just gave it a shot with a turret firing at the spawner instead of me, and there wasn't any significant change in damage. The spawner still had about 95% of its health left after about 100 magazines of ammo.

That's probably because this is early game and I don't have any turret upgrades, because the only things I've researched so far are turrets and military 1. I don't even have splitters or assembly machines or anything yet.

The spawner also only has a 5% resistance to physical, which is higher than vanilla's 2% at this point, but that should only mean I'd need about 5% more ammo, not twenty times as much ammo.
The issue is that with NE-Enemies the spawner has 2,000 health, but without NE-Enemies it only has 350 health.

Also, but I'm not 100% sure on this part, I suspect that spawners regen a percentage of their health when they regen, and not a flat amount, so even though back of the envelope math says that ~230 magazines should do the job based on the ratio of health to magazines from vanilla, 100 magazines still doesn't get anywhere near the halfway mark because of regen being proportionally higher too.

AliceTheGorgon, NE makes the game much harder and you've set the difficulty to a 5... That's like complaining it's too hard on impossible...
Set it back to default, 1, and then the health would be back to 1,500 vs. 6,000.

NE should be a challenge and on 5 you need to do everything right to stand a chance. 1 is for people finding Vanilla boring, and want a challenge.

Thanks for the feedback, but I'll only change if at level 1 it was not fun.
At 5 I want you to die...

P.S. I've not played a lot in 0.15. I started a Death world game on 5 and lost... but I think that's because NE Expansion does not affect the Evolution rates of preset worlds.
Later

[AliceTheGorgon]

you've set the difficulty to a 5...

Nope. I just double checked, and the difficulty setting in the mod options is still 1. Just like it was by default.

I even disabled every mod except for NE-Enemies and generated a test world after double-checking that the difficulty was set to 1, and the red spawners still have 2,000 health, which is far too high to even be able to take out a single lone spawner in the early game. Even the grey spawners at 1,500 still have way too much health to clear if even a single one is generated near your base.

[orzelek]

you've set the difficulty to a 5...

Nope. I just double checked, and the difficulty setting in the mod options is still 1. Just like it was by default.

I even disabled every mod except for NE-Enemies and generated a test world after double-checking that the difficulty was set to 1, and the red spawners still have 2,000 health, which is far too high to even be able to take out a single lone spawner in the early game. Even the grey spawners at 1,500 still have way too much health to clear if even a single one is generated near your base.

You are not looking at resistances. At default settings it has 2k hp with 5/10% resistance. From what I recall %-ages go first then absolute values so you need to do 5.5 damage to not get hit by absolute resistance heavily. if your damage doesn't exceed absolute resistance you won't do much.

I'm surprised that turret didn't help.. that might need to be checked since it should have much better damage on spawner then pistol/smg.

[AliceTheGorgon]

At default settings it has 2k hp with 5/10% resistance. From what I recall %-ages go first then absolute values

Whoops. I thought that "5/10%" meant "At the current evolution level, this has a resistance of 5% out of a possible 10%". Didn't realize it meant a percentage and also a flat rate.
That definitely explains why I was also doing so much less damage than usual. Apparently it wasn't a regen thing after all.

The resistances listed on armor also make much more sense now.

I'm surprised that turret didn't help.. that might need to be checked since it should have much better damage on spawner then pistol/smg.

That would be an interesting way of doing it. But yeah, doesn't seem to have any damage bonus by default, just the base bullet damage.
Though I have seen modded turrets that had bonus damage (specifically Yuoki's gun turrets, but others probably do it too), so it's definitely possible.

[orzelek]

Hmm you are right about gun turrets. It seems that they lost their damage bonus - I'm wondering if thats intentional or not.

[TheSAguy]

V7.0.1 of NE Enemies and Buildings released.

Enemy Spawners now have less health.
NE Buildings: Added Alien Artifacts to Spawners, since you need it in some recipes.

[TheSAguy]

NE Enemies tweaks:
V7.0.3 - More Balancing. If Mod Rampant detected, changes the number of units spawned by Worm Launchers
V7.0.2 - NE Enemies: Worms a little less OP.

[Sirzento1]

Hey,

I just want to know what must I change in the mod to change the amount of "science-pack-4" you get per crafting.

I have installed a bunch of mods and now the recipe is ridiculous hard so I wanted to change the amount.

The "mod override order" or how its called is "bobtech > BobExtended > Natural_Evolution_Expansion > bobtech"

I already change the amount in bobtech and the override in bobExtended but now I dont get It what I have to change in your mod :/


Does you or someone else know what to do to change the amount of "science-pack-4" per crafting?

The mod version is 6.4.0

[TheSAguy]

Hey,

I just want to know what must I change in the mod to change the amount of "science-pack-4" you get per crafting.

I have installed a bunch of mods and now the recipe is ridiculous hard so I wanted to change the amount.

The "mod override order" or how its called is "bobtech > BobExtended > Natural_Evolution_Expansion > bobtech"

I already change the amount in bobtech and the override in bobExtended but now I dont get It what I have to change in your mod :/


Does you or someone else know what to do to change the amount of "science-pack-4" per crafting?

The mod version is 6.4.0

Okay, so you're still playing in Factorio 0.14, and not 0.15.
What you'll have to do if Open the "data-updates.lua" file and comment out line 52:

Code: Select all

NE_Functions.Ingredient_Multiplier("science-pack-4",2)	

Just delete that line and you should be good to go.

[Sirzento1]

yeah, Im still at 0.14^^

I comment it out but it didnt change anything. And this isnt exactly what I wanted. idk if your mod touch the number of items per crafting ( I mean you get 30 science packs per crafting instead of 1).

I changed in the bobtech mods this code:

Code

Code: Select all

{
    type = "recipe",
    name = "science-pack-4",
    enabled = "false",
    energy_required = 15,
    ingredients =
    {
      {"processing-unit", 1},
      {"express-transport-belt", 1},
    },
    result = "science-pack-4",
	result_count = 30
  }

and I think thats looks right and it didnt crash or something but ingame it still craft only 1 per time.

next step I edit the override_recipe.lua of BobExtended and add the line:

Code

Code: Select all

data.raw["recipe"]["science-pack-4"].result_count = 30

still looks good without crash but didnt change it ingame and now I wanted to look into your mod if somewhere is something similar.

Do you know if theres some line of code that set the crafted amount to 1 ?

[TheSAguy]

yeah, Im still at 0.14^^

I comment it out but it didnt change anything. And this isnt exactly what I wanted. idk if your mod touch the number of items per crafting ( I mean you get 30 science packs per crafting instead of 1).

I changed in the bobtech mods this code:

Code

Code: Select all

{
    type = "recipe",
    name = "science-pack-4",
    enabled = "false",
    energy_required = 15,
    ingredients =
    {
      {"processing-unit", 1},
      {"express-transport-belt", 1},
    },
    result = "science-pack-4",
	result_count = 30
  }

and I think thats looks right and it didnt crash or something but ingame it still craft only 1 per time.

next step I edit the override_recipe.lua of BobExtended and add the line:

Code

Code: Select all

data.raw["recipe"]["science-pack-4"].result_count = 30

still looks good without crash but didnt change it ingame and now I wanted to look into your mod if somewhere is something similar.

Do you know if theres some line of code that set the crafted amount to 1 ?

Are you sure it's my mod(s) causing this issue. Please remove my mod(s) and see if it fixes this.
Thanks.

[Sirzento1]

Oh sorry,

If I make a new game it works ^^ so your mod has nothing to do with this problem but thank for your help anyways
If you want, you can delet my post here.

but one last question.

Do you know how to "update" my safe file to make it work there too?

[TheSAguy]

Do you know how to "update" my safe file to make it work there too?

Sorry, not sure what's causing your problem... Good time to start playing 0.15

[WhatTheDuck]

TheSAguy,

just one simple question. Which mods do use when you play with Natural Evolution and want a challenge. Do you use any weapon mods like "Bobwarfare"?

Edit: With some research i found the answer:


All Bobs:
- bobassembly
- bobconfig
- bobelectronics
- bobenemies
- boblibrary
- boblogistics
- bobmining
- bobmodules
- bobores
- bobplates
- bobpower
- bobtech
- bobwarfare
Natural_Evolution_Buildings - Default settings
Natural_Evolution_Enemies - - Default settings so on Hard
Natural_Evolution_Expansion- Default settings - so harder endgame and double science cost.
rso-mod - Need to discuss settings. I think the start is a little too rich
Swarm
VanillaEx
Hive_Buster
Hunting_Grounds
Bio_Farm - Wood Production
Warehousing - The mod I use for large storage
InterfaceChest / Single-Splitter - Probably don't need both, like the belt load balancer

Graphic Updates and Helper Mods:
Enhanced_Map_Colors
EvoGUI
WaiTex
ExtraChests - mainly for the updated Bob's graphics
upgrade-planner
Landfill
FARL
advanced-logistics-system - needed?
prospect - Probably not needed
FactorioMaps - I create maps with this for review when I can't play.

[TheSAguy]

This is my current Mod list, I'll elaborate later.

Mods

{
"mods": [
{
"name": "base",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "FactorioMaps",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "FARL",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "bobenemies",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "bobinserters",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "boblibrary",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "Bottleneck",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "Crafting_Speed_Research",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "DayNightExtender",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "Enhanced_Map_Colors",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "EvoGUI",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "Flow Control",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "KBlueprints",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "MapLabels",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "NaturalTreeExpansionReloaded",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "Orphan Finder",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "Scratch_my_back",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "Single-Splitter",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "Teleportation",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "upgrade-planner",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "Warehousing v15",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "YARM",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "bobores",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "bobvehicleequipment",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "Natural_Evolution_Buildings",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "Natural_Evolution_Enemies",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "Natural_Evolution_Expansion",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "Bio_Industries",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "bobplates",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "Rampant",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "rso-mod",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "Swarm",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "bobassembly",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "bobelectronics",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "boblogistics",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "bobmining",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "bobpower",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "bobrevamp",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "bobmodules",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "bobwarfare",
"enabled": true
}
]
}

[WhatTheDuck]

Nice, you have a lot of nice mods like flow control, single splitter.... i copied about the half of your mods. Thanks : )

[Sky_Orc_Mm]

I found that the atomic bomb on the enemy base without any harm, and even let the enemy base to restore HP, this a function? How do turn it off?

[TheSAguy]

I found that the atomic bomb on the enemy base without any harm, and even let the enemy base to restore HP, this a function? How do turn it off?

I'm not following what you're saying Sky, could you please elaborate. Does not sound like anything my mod does though.