[1.0] Sea Block Pack 0.4.10

[mexmer]

Ok, I tried doing this on marathon mode (expensive recipes, 4x science cost), but science cost tweaker's expensive recipes are just obscene. It costs 60 iron and 25 copper for four red packs (vs. 2 iron and 1 copper for one on normal), and 774 iron for four green packs (vs. 3 for one on normal). My 90-electrolyzer, 65-MW base was capable of 144 iron plates per minute using only the red technologies, which was about one of each every two minutes.

SCT recipes are for marathon (expensive mode) are roughly 2.5 of normal, it's stated in my thread. and yes, seablock is not good modpack to use on marathon with it's constraints. if you go angelbobs with SCT, it's playable, unless you have high density bitters.

[NeuralParity]

Ok, I tried doing this on marathon mode (expensive recipes, 4x science cost), but science cost tweaker's expensive recipes are just obscene. It costs 60 iron and 25 copper for four red packs (vs. 2 iron and 1 copper for one on normal), and 774 iron for four green packs (vs. 3 for one on normal). My 90-electrolyzer, 65-MW base was capable of 144 iron plates per minute using only the red technologies, which was about one of each every two minutes.

I found that there were periods of time between research upgrades that I fell back to /c game.speed=16 because there was literally nothing to do but wait hours for research to finish since it was the optimal strategy for increasing production.

50 hours in I'm running 61 iron/minute and still power constrained (understandable since I've only researched about 10 techs). The current marathon costs seem to assume a normal starting pace. Teching out of your power troubles doesn't work for marathon as, since tech is so expensive, you need to go wide with mkI algae farms for power (even though they're terrible). Reddit had a recent post where a pair of players had only just made it to blue science after 550 hours.

As it currently stands, I'm not sure if completing a SeaBlock marathon game is actually possible. Similar to the recent SpaceX discussion in this thread, the SeaBlock rebalancing of bob's modules to more sane levels means that the base required to complete a seablock marathon run is likely to be excessively long as it'll be UPS limited long before a monstrous base of the appropriate size could actually be built.

[jodokus31]

In my opinion the problem with marathon in Seablock are the expensive recipes, because they add up dramatically.
F.e. the raw ore to plate ratio gets down from 0.66 to 0.2 (of course, without advanced smelting, which is better), then multiply by 0.4 for science. This is about 8x more raw ore than normal mode in early game IIRC. And then multiply by 4 times science cost.
An increased tech multi alone could be fine, slowing things down linearly.

[mrvn]

With all the world being water I'm not sure if traditional landfill makes so much sense in the story line. The world is all water and probably not just a few meter deep. So how does dumping a bit of compressed crushed stone in the water fill the bottomless ocean to build a mountain of land?

Maybe more sensible would be something made from algae that looks like it floats. Lets call them algae mats. There could be several somethings that float with different colors and maybe walking speeds.

Green, brown, blue and red algae could give different algae mats. Green algae would give the equivalent of grass, brown for desert like mats.

And with the land just a thin layer floating on the water the blasting charges make a lot more sense too. You blow away the mat and the water below it comes out.

Anyone up for drawing some images that could be used here?

[mexmer]

With all the world being water I'm not sure if traditional landfill makes so much sense in the story line. The world is all water and probably not just a few meter deep. So how does dumping a bit of compressed crushed stone in the water fill the bottomless ocean to build a mountain of land?

Maybe more sensible would be something made from algae that looks like it floats. Lets call them algae mats. There could be several somethings that float with different colors and maybe walking speeds.

Green, brown, blue and red algae could give different algae mats. Green algae would give the equivalent of grass, brown for desert like mats.

And with the land just a thin layer floating on the water the blasting charges make a lot more sense too. You blow away the mat and the water below it comes out.

Anyone up for drawing some images that could be used here?

landfill doesn't make sense even in normal game (where all that water you push out goes? also you can literaly make your path across sea).

but you idea is nice anyways, making floats or pontons from light material (which some bio stuff aftery drying might be), makes sense, not sure about placing buildings on top of that tho, but then, you can always make more solid base by laying concrete on top of it.

[minno]

SCT recipes are for marathon (expensive mode) are roughly 2.5 of normal, it's stated in my thread. and yes, seablock is not good modpack to use on marathon with it's constraints. if you go angelbobs with SCT, it's playable, unless you have high density bitters.

If it's 2.5x on each stage, that adds up to way more than 2.5x overall. The green pack requires 3x as many ATMOS instrumentation, which each require 2.5x as many microcircuits, which each require 2x as many microwafers, which each require 2.5x as many wafer stamps, which each require 2.5x as much iron. That's almost a 100x multiplier in total. When the developers talked about expensive recipes in FFF-183, they said "it seems that making few vital components, like iron gear wheels, circuits, steel and miners more expensive, might be enough to slow the game down". So maybe multiply the raw materials that go into each stage, but not the amount of intermediate products too.

[mexmer]

SCT recipes are for marathon (expensive mode) are roughly 2.5 of normal, it's stated in my thread. and yes, seablock is not good modpack to use on marathon with it's constraints. if you go angelbobs with SCT, it's playable, unless you have high density bitters.

If it's 2.5x on each stage, that adds up to way more than 2.5x overall. The green pack requires 3x as many ATMOS instrumentation, which each require 2.5x as many microcircuits, which each require 2x as many microwafers, which each require 2.5x as many wafer stamps, which each require 2.5x as much iron. That's almost a 100x multiplier in total. When the developers talked about expensive recipes in FFF-183, they said "it seems that making few vital components, like iron gear wheels, circuits, steel and miners more expensive, might be enough to slow the game down". So maybe multiply the raw materials that go into each stage, but not the amount of intermediate products too.

you might be right here, i will check total calculations, i might remove expensive multiplier on packs itself, just leaving it on intermediates

[minno]

Here's a comparison of the vanilla science pack costs in normal vs. expensive mode:



It looks like the resources needed are about doubled on average. Red packs need 2x the iron, yellow packs need 2x the iron and 3x the copper, blue packs need 3x the iron and 4x the copper, military packs take the same copper and 1.5x the iron. Then everything needs 4x the packs. So your 2.5x cost on everything is a good baseline, giving 10x the resources for science. Maybe even a bit higher than that, like 4x-5x, since SCT is supposed to be more difficult than the base game. It's when the 2.5x gets multiplied through multiple different intermediate products that the costs get a lot higher.

[mexmer]

Here's a comparison of the vanilla science pack costs in normal vs. expensive mode:



It looks like the resources needed are about doubled on average. Red packs need 2x the iron, yellow packs need 2x the iron and 3x the copper, blue packs need 3x the iron and 4x the copper, military packs take the same copper and 1.5x the iron. Then everything needs 4x the packs. So your 2.5x cost on everything is a good baseline, giving 10x the resources for science. Maybe even a bit higher than that, like 4x-5x, since SCT is supposed to be more difficult than the base game. It's when the 2.5x gets multiplied through multiple different intermediate products that the costs get a lot higher.

intention was to have roughly 10x total cost on higher tech tiers and 5x on lower tech tiers (green, red, military) . sct doesn't multiply packs required on expensive, but indeed my mistake was not taking account that scaling is multiplicative (if components got trough multiple stages), instead of linear, so you are at 100x cost with blue science, which is too much even for masochist
anyways, we can discuss this in SCT thread, rather than here.

but tbh. nobody said anything when i created expensive recipes, guess people not playing on expensive much.

[mrvn]

Is there really just one ore sorting recipe to get chrome? You need quite a bit of it for black circuit boards and you only get a fraction for sorting ferrous crystals.

[jodokus31]

Is there really just one ore sorting recipe to get chrome? You need quite a bit of it for black circuit boards and you only get a fraction for sorting ferrous crystals.

Yes, only this recipe. It seems quite absurd, but it actually was handleable. You need to actively care about using up the byproduct ores, but it can be mostly dumped into iron production, which "always" demands more.
Black circuits are so expensive regarding the other ingredients, I was never bottlenecked by chrome.

[Wacky444]

Is it legal to get concrete by placing concrete bricks on the ground and picking them back up?

[jodokus31]

Is it legal to get concrete by placing concrete bricks on the ground and picking them back up?

No, its evil

[ukezi]

Is it legal to get concrete by placing concrete bricks on the ground and picking them back up?

No, its evil

He asked legality not morality
No that should not be the case. You should get concrete bricks back.

[Wacky444]

Is it legal to get concrete by placing concrete bricks on the ground and picking them back up?

No, its evil

He asked legality not morality
No that should not be the case. You should get concrete bricks back.

Ok then I will sacrifice the concrete inside an iron chest

[mrvn]

Is it legal to get concrete by placing concrete bricks on the ground and picking them back up?

No, its evil

He asked legality not morality
No that should not be the case. You should get concrete bricks back.

Ok then I will sacrifice the concrete inside an iron chest

Both take 40 liquid concrete so at least you aren't violating the laws of physics (too much).

[live22morrow]

It takes energy to power the robots to pick it up anyways so it's not exactly free.

[zompus]

I've been playing Seablock for about 3 months now and have been really enjoying it. I went straight to Seablock from the base game without trying Bobs/Angels first. When thinking about why I like Seablock so much I realize it gets rid of several things I like least about the base game:

-Defending biter attacks and having to build a wall perimeter to keep biters out of the base. Shooting worms with a sniper rifle isn't the most exciting thing but I expect that when I unlock artillery that basically goes away.
-Exploring for and building mining outposts, and the resulting huge game file
-Having to either find coal or oil patches to feed power generation or switch to solar/nuclear.
-Stamping out a ton of copies of the same thing to scale up production - eventually that gets boring.

I'm especially loving the petrochem aspect. Having to correctly type "ethylene" after a few beers is an amusing challenge.

[Trainwreck]

Sea block pack 0.2.13 has been released. Check first post for download link.

• Fix sea block adjusted SpaceX fusion reactor recipe not including SpaceX production multiplier.
• Updated bobpower mod rebalances boilers, steam engines, heat exchanges and steam turbines.
• Updated ScienceCostTweakerM adjusts expensive mode recipes.

[mrbaggins]

You must have posted that between me checking the page 1 for updates, then clicking this page to see the latest chatter.

What roughly changed in the bobs power balance? I just set up my mk2 reactor stuff >.>