[MOD 0.12.x] HardCrafting 0.3.15

[boazdm]

Hi!

Any plans on making this mod compatible with Marathon? I love both of them and it makes me sad that they don't play nicely with each other.

[judos]

Hi boazdm,

Can you specify more closely what the problem is with marathon mod?
Some time ago (version < 0.2.x) i made the recipes dynamic such they adapt when marathon is installed and a lot more plates are created.

[boazdm]

I tried with the latest version of Marathon (1.0.3).

When both are in the mods directory, HardCrafting is red and will not load. When I remove Marathon and restart, it works no problem.

[judos]

Oh that's strange. Thanks for the info!
I will have a look this evening and keep you update what causes this.

[boazdm]

Thanks, I'll also be around to help re-create the problem if you're unable to on your side.

[NoriSilverrage]

Hmm, so just started using belt sorters. Pretty nifty. Am I correct in assuming they can't output a compressed belt? Seems like you need 2 of them for that.

I can see in belt-sorter.lua there is a check every 10 ticks for the belt sorters. The game has 60 ticks per second so the belt sorters do their thing 6 times per second.
I'm not sure if they fill both sides of the belt, in that case they would be able to fill 12 items each second.
The yellow belt is 13.39125 items each second according to the factorio wiki.
Changing this in the code to 9 would give 6.67 checks per second and 13.33 items per second, just a little less than a compressed belt.
I'm at work now, but if I remember when I get home I might check this theory.

In theory to get the 40.17375 for a compressed express belt you would need 20.086875 checks a second, so each 2.987 ticks. 3 would almost completely fill it and 2 should fill it.

Hmm, interesting. Thanks for looking into it. From my observations, it interacts with two rows. So I think it does 24 items then. Unfortunately it outputs uncompressed.

I ended up changing my setup to have two belt sorters that merge the belt back together to compress it. So hopefully that'll be enough for when I get express belts.

Something that would be pretty nice is a 2x2 belt sorter. That way you can input/output a lot more without having to do lots of belt spaghetti.

[Solarion]

I've been playing with this mod a couple of hours now, mainly trying to get the balance of iron ore processing right. I love the puzzle, but I can't help but feel that the ratio's are off. I keep getting a shortage of gravel when using tier 3 ore processing (crushing iron. pulverizing it, crushing the slag to gravel and iron, etc), causing a buildup of iron ore, even when bringing in extra stone from my stone mine to pulverize it to extra gravel using the dirt from the iron mine.

EDIT: Did a bit of math. Lets say we take 90 iron ore. For this amount of ore, 45 gravel and 40 dirt is also mined (I checked the files). the dirt can be converted to 10 more gravel using 30 stone, so lets say 90 Iron and 55 Gravel

90 ore crushes to 54 crushed iron. but to pulverize 54 chrushed iron we need 72 gravel. Then again, 54 crushed iron produces 36 slag, which crushes to 14,4 crushed iron and 21.6 gravel. 19,2 of this gravel is needed to pulverize the chrushed iron from the slag, so 2,4 gravel is surplus from the slag. So, for tier 3 only iron processing, we need 72 gravel per 90 iron ore, but we can get only 57,4 from the iron mine alone. Is this intentional?

EDIT 2: Nevermind, I got my dirt-to-gravel wrong. 4 dirt produces 3 gravel, so knowing that, the output from a mine SHOULD be enough to sustain tier 3 ore processing...so then why do I keep backing up....

[NoriSilverrage]

I've been playing with this mod a couple of hours now, mainly trying to get the balance of iron ore processing right. I love the puzzle, but I can't help but feel that the ratio's are off. I keep getting a shortage of gravel when using tier 3 ore processing (crushing iron. pulverizing it, crushing the slag to gravel and iron, etc), causing a buildup of iron ore, even when bringing in extra stone from my stone mine to pulverize it to extra gravel using the dirt from the iron mine. Is this intentional?

I think it is supposed to be part of the puzzle.
There's a very simple way to "fix" it that is counter-intuitive. Just put a couple furnaces (2 is enough) at the end of the pulverizer line. Grab crushed iron, not pulverized.
This has two effects. It keeps your crushed iron moving. This is important because your slag processing area (you are processing slag and putting the gravel back right?) gets utilized more and the crushers are making more stone

And lastly, use the dirt and stone from these processes to supplement gravel as needed. I highly recommend the Smarter Circuitry mod for the detector and actuator. You can use it to prioritize certain sources. For instance your slag processors are really important and all their outputs should be number 1 priority.

I can take a pic of my setup tonight if you are interested in seeing it.

[Solarion]

I've been playing with this mod a couple of hours now, mainly trying to get the balance of iron ore processing right. I love the puzzle, but I can't help but feel that the ratio's are off. I keep getting a shortage of gravel when using tier 3 ore processing (crushing iron. pulverizing it, crushing the slag to gravel and iron, etc), causing a buildup of iron ore, even when bringing in extra stone from my stone mine to pulverize it to extra gravel using the dirt from the iron mine. Is this intentional?

I think it is supposed to be part of the puzzle.
There's a very simple way to "fix" it that is counter-intuitive. Just put a couple furnaces (2 is enough) at the end of the pulverizer line. Grab crushed iron, not pulverized.
This has two effects. It keeps your crushed iron moving. This is important because your slag processing area (you are processing slag and putting the gravel back right?) gets utilized more and the crushers are making more stone

And lastly, use the dirt and stone from these processes to supplement gravel as needed. I highly recommend the Smarter Circuitry mod for the detector and actuator. You can use it to prioritize certain sources. For instance your slag processors are really important and all their outputs should be number 1 priority.

I can take a pic of my setup tonight if you are interested in seeing it.

Sure, I'd like to see your setup. I also edited my post a bit with some math, purely from the perspective of the output of the mine. It leads to the conclusion that with the current ratio's, an iron mine cannot support ONLY tier 3 processing. so you may be right that I need to add some furnaces for tier 2 smelting. Which will, of course, completely destroy my current ore processing setup. (and yes I've been using the slag, dirt and stone to produce more chrushed iron and gravel).

Also, regarding the dirt-to-gravel route, I really suspect that you can't process all the dirt from an iron mine using the stone from ore crushing alone. You need quite a lot of stone, since there is quite a lot of dirt, and each 10 ore produces only 1 stone, but each 10 ore produces slightly over 4 dirt, so you need 2+ stone. So you need an external source of stone to process all dirt.

[NoriSilverrage]

I've been playing with this mod a couple of hours now, mainly trying to get the balance of iron ore processing right. I love the puzzle, but I can't help but feel that the ratio's are off. I keep getting a shortage of gravel when using tier 3 ore processing (crushing iron. pulverizing it, crushing the slag to gravel and iron, etc), causing a buildup of iron ore, even when bringing in extra stone from my stone mine to pulverize it to extra gravel using the dirt from the iron mine. Is this intentional?

I think it is supposed to be part of the puzzle.
There's a very simple way to "fix" it that is counter-intuitive. Just put a couple furnaces (2 is enough) at the end of the pulverizer line. Grab crushed iron, not pulverized.
This has two effects. It keeps your crushed iron moving. This is important because your slag processing area (you are processing slag and putting the gravel back right?) gets utilized more and the crushers are making more stone

And lastly, use the dirt and stone from these processes to supplement gravel as needed. I highly recommend the Smarter Circuitry mod for the detector and actuator. You can use it to prioritize certain sources. For instance your slag processors are really important and all their outputs should be number 1 priority.

I can take a pic of my setup tonight if you are interested in seeing it.

Sure, I'd like to see your setup. I also edited my post a bit with some math, purely from the perspective of the output of the mine. It leads to the conclusion that with the current ratio's, an iron mine cannot support ONLY tier 3 processing. so you may be right that I need to add some furnaces for tier 2 smelting. Which will, of course, completely destroy my current ore processing setup. (and yes I've been using the slag, dirt and stone to produce more chrushed iron and gravel).

Also, regarding the dirt-to-gravel route, I really suspect that you can't process all the dirt from an iron mine using the stone from ore crushing alone. You need quite a lot of stone, since there is quite a lot of dirt, and each 10 ore produces only 1 stone, but each 10 ore produces slightly over 4 dirt, so you need 2+ stone. So you need an external source of stone to process all dirt.

A iron mine can almost support just tier 3. It's really really close.

Nerdy stuff

The more nuggets and more gravel on the right are what you get from the mine based on the amount of iron ore (so for every 1 ore you get .5 gravel).
This doesn't take into account if you add a tier 2 furnace.

If you process every stone you get into gravel. Process all the slag, and send all the mine gravel to the pulverizers. You will get roughly 15/16th of the gravel needed. If you put in two tier 2 furnaces, they will easily push you over the top.

You are correct about the dirt. There is a lot of it. I send the dirt off using smart inserters to grab a small amount for gravel. It then travels elsewhere to get turned into dry dirt, and then incinerated.

[Solarion]

I found a tiny bug: The pulverizer is not animated when it is working (spinning fans & such). The crusher is, though.

[judos]

@NoriSilverrage: If you place two items of the same type in two different slots it will put items on both belt lanes. Otherwise it will wait until one lane is full and only then fill the other lane.

General note for the belt-sorter: As you might have noticed on big servers, the belt-sorter causes some lag. I'm currently updating and tweaking it to be much more performant. I already found a couple of optimizations which will allow you probably to have around 50 times more belt-sorters.
Also I'm trying to implement a custom gui, such that the filter can more easily be selected.

As for the 2x2 belt-sorter I was already thinking of that, but it will have to wait for another moment. But mainly I don't think there's a lot of scenarios where you actually need it.

Compression of belts is not supported for the belt-sorters Mainly this would be a bigger performence impact since the lua code needs to run a around 4 times more to fill an express belt. I will speed the belt-sorter a little bit up (update every 8/9 ticks) such that a standard belt is filled. But to fill an express belt you have find ways how to do that.

@Solarion: About ths missing gravel for tier 3 processing: As NoriSilverrage mentioned very nicely, this is part of the puzzle You are right that the mine itself will probably not keep up with gravel production.
Also one note which might help: You can always use Belts to set priority to one input.

Thanks about the report for the broken pulverizer animation. I will have a look at this but it will not be high priority since it's only a visual problem. If anyone is willing I'm still searching for a separate graphics for those machines, instead of reusing a copy of the electric furnace...

Cheers

[NoriSilverrage]

~snip

Ok here is my setup.
Couple caveats. I do have a few mods that I use. I have a mod that adds faster furnaces, the warehousing mod, smarter circuitry, a mod that adds long smart inserters and I also modded the game to add 1.5x, 2x and 3x versions of crushers and pulverizers. Oh and a few of the belts are slightly longer for aesthetic reasons.

The furnaces and fasters crushers/pulverizers don't change any ratios and are mostly so I don't need even more space. You could build this thing almost exactly as is with the lower speed versions. I planned it so that it could be 1x, 2x or 3x.

The excess dirt goes up north to get dried and incinerated.

At 2x it'll put out about 45 iron/s. At 1x you could hit almost a compress red belt.

Big image

http://imgur.com/veGAAyN

[Solarion]

~snip

Ok here is my setup.
Couple caveats. I do have a few mods that I use. I have a mod that adds faster furnaces, the warehousing mod, smarter circuitry, a mod that adds long smart inserters and I also modded the game to add 1.5x, 2x and 3x versions of crushers and pulverizers. Oh and a few of the belts are slightly longer for aesthetic reasons.

The furnaces and fasters crushers/pulverizers don't change any ratios and are mostly so I don't need even more space. You could build this thing almost exactly as is with the lower speed versions. I planned it so that it could be 1x, 2x or 3x.

The excess dirt goes up north to get dried and incinerated.

At 2x it'll put out about 45 iron/s. At 1x you could hit almost a compress red belt.

Big image

http://imgur.com/veGAAyN

Very nice setup. I can imagine that it becomes nearly impractically large if you would only use 1x speed buildings.

I'm currently working on a tile-able t3 ore processing setup. Only mod I'm using for it is side inserters and near inserters. It could be done without those but it would expand the design a few tiles. This will mean that I need to tile a lot of those modules to actually achieve compression of any belt. But hey, space is cheap. Also I suspect , looking at the recipes for copper processing, that copper will produce a surplus of gravel. That, along with using dirt and an external stone source, should be enough to not need that t2 processing bit (I intend to set up processing and smelting stations separately from the mines, connected by train. Also, working in a bit of t2 would screw up my whole modular t3 design). But I'll have to build it to actually find out. I'll post some pics when I'm actually done.

[daniel34]

Hardcrafting 0.3.10 causes the following error at startup when Factorio is set to Spanish (as reported here):

__hardcrafting__/locale/ES-es/generated.cfg(27):duplicate key name

Possible workarounds: delete the file or remove the duplicate key
Both of them also work for multiplayer, as locale files don't cause desyncs, but if you delete it then the english translations in en/generated.cfg will be used for vanilla items instead of the spanish ones from base.

I'm curious, why do you have these generated translations for vanilla stuff in your mod?

[judos]

Hi Daniel,

Thanks for the report. Usually the recipes for entities use the localization of the entity itself. However I do change several recipes such that they produce scrap metal as secondary output. Therefore factorio will not use the entity localization for the recipe anymore and I basically copied the vanilla entity translation and put it for those recipes.

Seems however like something went wrong inbetween. I will correct this asap.

[Arch666Angel]

Hi Daniel,

Thanks for the report. Usually the recipes for entities use the localization of the entity itself. However I do change several recipes such that they produce scrap metal as secondary output. Therefore factorio will not use the entity localization for the recipe anymore and I basically copied the vanilla entity translation and put it for those recipes.

Seems however like something went wrong inbetween. I will correct this asap.

If you don't set a main product, it will use the recipe name.

[Solarion]

Found another little quirky bug: The belt sorter appears to have a fuel value (of 4 MJ). is this intended?

[NoriSilverrage]

Found another little quirky bug: The belt sorter appears to have a fuel value (of 4 MJ). is this intended?

Yeah I put a stack in a furnace once.. haha

[judos]

Yeah the new update is here
And I'm still searching for some people who are willing to contribute graphics. This is one thing that I'm currently missing and which I can't do myself. Please send me a message or feel free to post any proposals

Updates and news for 0.3.11
- Belt-sorter has now a custom gui (for factorio 0.12.33)
- new gui supports Copy, paste the filter among sorters.
- Belt-sorter has now much better performence
- Belt-sorter let's you select a circuit condition
- Belt-sorter requires power and is affected by low-power (slower distribution)
- Crusher let's you now select recipe (only when placing new ones, or removing and replacing old ones)
- Big-Processing-Machine added
- Added smart-long-inserter
- Improved graphics of fast-long-inserter (regular graphics as fast-inserter, just the arm is longer, no need for special color since the arm length is always visible)
- Walls again less expensive

And besides:
@daniel34: Localization issue fixed
@NoriSilverrage & Solarion: fuel value of belt-sorter removed

Further notes:
I documented some details about the improvements of the belt-sorter performence here: https://github.com/judos/hardCrafting/b ... ements.txt
One thing that is however not mentioned: Before all belt-sorters were updated in the same tick (update step) 6 times a second. That means it would always stop for a big then run again, since the work of all belt-sorter was scheduled at once. Pretty bad to summarize.
Now this the work is distributed among all ticks. So all belt-sorters are rescheduled randomly and the performence will therefore also be a lot better. Beside of course the real time-improvement in the calculations.

Wow feels like a version 0.4.0 release. But I guess for that I will need to add a few more things
Have fun and please report any problems.