[MOD 0.12.0+] Greenhouses 0.1.0

[hoho]

Perhaps add multiple recipes. Water, fertilizer and perhaps even CO2 to produce more or faster.

[Kayser]

Perhaps add multiple recipes. Water, fertilizer and perhaps even CO2 to produce more or faster.

CO2 is essentially pollution. But trees normally don't benefit from it.

[Damrus]

Would it be too much of a hasle to make the germling and sapling one thing? it's silly to have basically the same thing twice.

I've got that working for my personal rendition of this mod here.

It also allows for rubber and alienplants to be used.

Btw, Ill take this down when/if the mod owner wants to.

[hoho]

Perhaps add multiple recipes. Water, fertilizer and perhaps even CO2 to produce more or faster.

CO2 is essentially pollution.

Not quite.
It's pollution in sense that it adds to climate change on Earth but it's essentially food for plants (IIRC vast majority of carbon in plants is coming from air).

[FalcoGer]

If'd be nice if the greenhouse actually reduces polution as 10 trees would...

[AyrA]

For those saying, that it feels sort of overkill or cheaty that you can create trees out of thin air, I want to remind you, that trees are mainly made out of carbon, which it gets from the air.

I like the idea to be able to have a sustainable tree supply.

[roy7]

Here's another Greenhouse graphic someone might use.

https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... 03#p115777

I find that using Treefarm-Lite 0.2.1 from https://forums.factorio.com/forum/viewtop ... 20&t=18870 gives me an error "Error in assignID, item with name 'alien-plant-seed' does not exist". I'm unsure if this is an error in that version of Treefarm-Lite, or in Greenhouses 0.1.2 (version in this thread).

Edit: Although AlienPlant is listed as an optional dependency, apparently it is actually required for the mod to load correctly without the full version of TreeFarm?

[devilwarriors]

I wanted to be able to see when the building was active so I added the lab animation but with a green hue.. it's quite weird

[Buggi]

Electrified Trees!

[Blu3wolf]

Is there a license for the use of this mod?

[Koub]

Hi,

License should be specified in the mod. If it's not the case, since october the 27th, 2014, the mods have a default http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0 license.
Source :
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6202&start=10#p48968

[kingoftheinternet]

Not sure if this has been brought up before, but greenhouses each generate about 560kW in fuel on net at 100% capacity (compared to the 60kW electricity a solar panel in the same amount of space would generate). I set the crafting time to 600s and the power drain to 300kw to make them slightly power-negative in my own game (as well as more strategically interesting IMO, if you're playing with mods that require wood for crafting ongoing essentials).

[Blu3wolf]

An interesting choice. Solar panels should probably be more space efficient than greenhouses, but greenhouses should probably be able to recoup their energy loss by burning their product. Mebbe your debuff is a little too "de-"?

[devilwarriors]

Seem like you are forgetting that to get all that energie from the wood you are also releasing lot of pollution, while solar panel are pollution free.

[Blu3wolf]

Hmm. Big pollution differences, but for nearly a tenth of the solarpanels required...

Its probably good as it was - although a long timer on growing trees is peobably also a good thing.

[kingoftheinternet]

An interesting choice. Solar panels should probably be more space efficient than greenhouses, but greenhouses should probably be able to recoup their energy loss by burning their product. Mebbe your debuff is a little too "de-"?

40 wood every 600s (50 minus the 10 for the next batch) is 267kW of fuel. Energy efficiency of 88% is still implausibly high, if you're concerned about realism at all (not that that should be your first priority but I personally feel better about myself when my video games don't explicitly violate thermodynamics ); from a gameplay perspective it means there's at least a little downside to using greenhouses as very-portable fuel sources that require no input besides electricity. (This turned out to be very handy in my first mining outpost before I had electric furnaces.)

Yes, this does produce pollution so it's not strictly superior to solar panels, but >100% energy efficiency means you don't really have to think about solid fuel for backup power, trains, etc. ever again as soon as you can build a few greenhouses; if you choose to keep using coal or fuel from light oil or whatever then that's more tradition than Being Strategic, which seems like an unintended consequence of this mod.

A more broadly-palatable change might be to have this mod reduce wood's fuel value to 500kJ each (I get the impression people don't really use wood as fuel normally and the 4MJ number was a bit arbitrary anyway), which would bring the wood recipe to 83% efficiency at its current time and power draw.

[GotLag]

How much solar energy are the trees/greenhouses receiving?

[Blu3wolf]

An interesting choice. Solar panels should probably be more space efficient than greenhouses, but greenhouses should probably be able to recoup their energy loss by burning their product. Mebbe your debuff is a little too "de-"?

40 wood every 600s (50 minus the 10 for the next batch) is 267kW of fuel. Energy efficiency of 88% is still implausibly high, if you're concerned about realism at all (not that that should be your first priority but I personally feel better about myself when my video games don't explicitly violate thermodynamics ); from a gameplay perspective it means there's at least a little downside to using greenhouses as very-portable fuel sources that require no input besides electricity. (This turned out to be very handy in my first mining outpost before I had electric furnaces.)

Yes, this does produce pollution so it's not strictly superior to solar panels, but >100% energy efficiency means you don't really have to think about solid fuel for backup power, trains, etc. ever again as soon as you can build a few greenhouses; if you choose to keep using coal or fuel from light oil or whatever then that's more tradition than Being Strategic, which seems like an unintended consequence of this mod.

A more broadly-palatable change might be to have this mod reduce wood's fuel value to 500kJ each (I get the impression people don't really use wood as fuel normally and the 4MJ number was a bit arbitrary anyway), which would bring the wood recipe to 83% efficiency at its current time and power draw.

By your definition, solar panels violate thermodynamics, by consuming less energy than they output.

Energy efficiency of 0.88 is implausibly low, considering the trees get their energy from solar power. If you exclusively use your trees to power the greenhouses, they ought to provide excess energy. Of course, they also ought to consume potassium based fertilizers as well, so there's that.

[kingoftheinternet]

An interesting choice. Solar panels should probably be more space efficient than greenhouses, but greenhouses should probably be able to recoup their energy loss by burning their product. Mebbe your debuff is a little too "de-"?

40 wood every 600s (50 minus the 10 for the next batch) is 267kW of fuel. Energy efficiency of 88% is still implausibly high, if you're concerned about realism at all (not that that should be your first priority but I personally feel better about myself when my video games don't explicitly violate thermodynamics ); from a gameplay perspective it means there's at least a little downside to using greenhouses as very-portable fuel sources that require no input besides electricity. (This turned out to be very handy in my first mining outpost before I had electric furnaces.)

Yes, this does produce pollution so it's not strictly superior to solar panels, but >100% energy efficiency means you don't really have to think about solid fuel for backup power, trains, etc. ever again as soon as you can build a few greenhouses; if you choose to keep using coal or fuel from light oil or whatever then that's more tradition than Being Strategic, which seems like an unintended consequence of this mod.

A more broadly-palatable change might be to have this mod reduce wood's fuel value to 500kJ each (I get the impression people don't really use wood as fuel normally and the 4MJ number was a bit arbitrary anyway), which would bring the wood recipe to 83% efficiency at its current time and power draw.

By your definition, solar panels violate thermodynamics, by consuming less energy than they output.

Energy efficiency of 0.88 is implausibly low, considering the trees get their energy from solar power. If you exclusively use your trees to power the greenhouses, they ought to provide excess energy. Of course, they also ought to consume potassium based fertilizers as well, so there's that.

Solar panels consume energy from the sun; I didn't think I proposed a definition of anything. The trees in these greenhouses get their energy from the electrical lighting in the greenhouse. Even if we suppose the trees in the greenhouses are getting, say, 50% of their energy from the sun, with the electrical lighting as a supplement rather than their sole source of light, and that the lights are themselves perfectly efficient, getting 160MJ of biomass from (with my own tweaked values) 360MJ total of light energy still isn't physically plausible, if Factorio-world's alien trees are anything like Earth plant life. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosynt ... ficiencies

Anyway. Pretend I never mentioned physics; this is nerd shit, as it were, and Factorio isn't the most interesting setting for worldbuilding IMO.

From a gameplay perspective, I, personally, found that the greenhouses were "overpowered" in that they 1. are extremely portable and >>100%-efficient solid fuel generators that require no external inputs besides electricity, and 2. let you convert space into renewable and reliable (though polluting) power at an exchange rate several times more favorable than solar panels. I don't endorse adding my own tweaks to power consumption and crafting time to the mod--it really does make it rather difficult, in a way that I find fun but many probably wouldn't--and I'm not here to tell anyone what they Should Do with their mod. But, I predict that lowering wood's fuel value substantially would make the mod more in line with the expectations of the subset of people who are munchkin enough to think to use the greenhouses as solid fuel generators or power sources, without really impacting what the mod does for anyone else.

[FalcoGer]

You might want to look at viewtopic.php?f=93&t=17548 . They feel less cheaty and offer more options.
They're huge, like you would expect to grow trees and they need water. you can add red or green sci packs to grow more wood.