[MOD 12.11+] Train Outposts

[SirRichie]

Wow, that is quite a big patch...
How far did you go out? This seems to be quite the distance. Also, did you play with normal resource settings?
Truth to be told, I did not balance for this distance.

As to the why: patch sizes grow with distance, but in a linear way.
I'd even argue that going out that far would probably not be worthwhile, since your trains will have to go a very long way.

[Olix]

Wow, that is quite a big patch...
How far did you go out? This seems to be quite the distance. Also, did you play with normal resource settings?
Truth to be told, I did not balance for this distance.

As to the why: patch sizes grow with distance, but in a linear way.
I'd even argue that going out that far would probably not be worthwhile, since your trains will have to go a very long way.

It's about 1500 tiles from the starting location. I found my way there due to driving through the big empty area pictured in the second screenshot - somehow there are no resources or biters at all between around {-1200,-1200} and {0,0}. I thought maybe a coding error had somehow resulted in the {-X, -Y},{0,0} map quadrant being empty, but the resources start again once you pass beyond -1200. I also had a look through you code and nothing obvious jumped out as the cause - hence why it is mysterious!

[SirRichie]

It is interesting you say that, because I had that daunting feeling that in that very region you described nothing gets generated. But then once in a while it does.

Now since biters should *always* be present, no matter if resources are or not, this further proves I should revisit the code and check for that.Thanks again.
As for the resource sizes, I may weight down the importance of distance a little then.

[gmyx]

I had to fix data-updates.lua to look like this (to get it to work with Natural Evolution):

Code: Select all

require "config"

function add_peak(ent, peak)
  if ent and ent.autoplace then
    ent.autoplace.peaks[#ent.autoplace.peaks+1] = peak
  end
end

for resource_name, resource in pairs(data.raw.resource) do
	-- do not spawn the resource naturally
	add_peak(resource,{influence=-1000})

	-- make resource infinite
	data.raw.resource[resource_name].infinite = true
	if ((resources_config[resource_name] ~= nil) and (resources_config[resource_name].type == "resource-liquid")) then
		data.raw.resource[resource_name].minimum  = liquid_min
		data.raw.resource[resource_name].normal   = liquid_normal
	else
		data.raw.resource[resource_name].minimum  = resource_min
		data.raw.resource[resource_name].normal   = resource_normal
	end
end

for _, spawner in pairs(data.raw["unit-spawner"]) do
		add_peak(spawner,{influence=-1000})
end

for _, turret in pairs(data.raw.turret) do
	if turret.subgroup == "enemies" then
		add_peak(turret,{influence=-1000})
	end
end

data.raw["recipe"]["straight-rail"].result_count = 20
data.raw["recipe"]["curved-rail"].result_count = 20

Doing this code also allowed me to load it with Bob mod.

[Darhak]

I had to fix data-updates.lua to look like this (to get it to work with Natural Evolution):

Code: Select all

require "config"

function add_peak(ent, peak)
  if ent and ent.autoplace then
    ent.autoplace.peaks[#ent.autoplace.peaks+1] = peak
  end
end

for resource_name, resource in pairs(data.raw.resource) do
	-- do not spawn the resource naturally
	add_peak(resource,{influence=-1000})

	-- make resource infinite
	data.raw.resource[resource_name].infinite = true
	if ((resources_config[resource_name] ~= nil) and (resources_config[resource_name].type == "resource-liquid")) then
		data.raw.resource[resource_name].minimum  = liquid_min
		data.raw.resource[resource_name].normal   = liquid_normal
	else
		data.raw.resource[resource_name].minimum  = resource_min
		data.raw.resource[resource_name].normal   = resource_normal
	end
end

for _, spawner in pairs(data.raw["unit-spawner"]) do
		add_peak(spawner,{influence=-1000})
end

for _, turret in pairs(data.raw.turret) do
	if turret.subgroup == "enemies" then
		add_peak(turret,{influence=-1000})
	end
end

data.raw["recipe"]["straight-rail"].result_count = 20
data.raw["recipe"]["curved-rail"].result_count = 20

Doing this code also allowed me to load it with Bob mod.

Hu, weird, it didn't generate Bob ores for me. Did you use another mod like Dytech?

[SirRichie]

It probably "loads" with Bob mod, but does not generate bob's ores.
At least that would very much surprise me, because it only generates the ores it knows about - which is something I want to change for the next release.

[Darhak]

My bad then, gess i'm stuck with no advanced machinery.

[pib]

Just thought I'd leave a note here that I've been using this mod (and only this mod) for my most recent game (20 hours so far?). I really like the balance this mod achieves.

The distances are not too extreme, but definitely did push me to expand with rail very early. I like the "depleted" ore deposits continue to supply ore (although perhaps they are too effective in this task). In practice this has meant heavier reliance on trains to handle larger distances, but also it feels more worthwhile to spend more time on defensive abilities and loading / unloading stations because I know the installations will not run completely dry.

[SirRichie]

Just thought I'd leave a note here that I've been using this mod (and only this mod) for my most recent game (20 hours so far?). I really like the balance this mod achieves.

The distances are not too extreme, but definitely did push me to expand with rail very early. I like the "depleted" ore deposits continue to supply ore (although perhaps they are too effective in this task). In practice this has meant heavier reliance on trains to handle larger distances, but also it feels more worthwhile to spend more time on defensive abilities and loading / unloading stations because I know the installations will not run completely dry.

Thank you very much for the kind feedback, much appreciated.
If you'd like "depleted" deposits to be less effective, you can change the minimal resource amount in the config, which will effectively allow deposits to be depleted further and thus decrease mining efficiency.

[pib]

Thanks for the tip. I checked and I am actually closer to 40 hours of using this mod!

[AmbulatoryCortex]

It appears that one cannot discover new resources with radar in this mod. I'm using SnoopyTiga radar and the resources and bugs don't show up on the map until I drive over to the big blank areas.

[Ringkeeper]

is there a way to make this mod compatible with other mods, so the ores from them also spawn ? LIke Bobs or Crafted Artifacts

[orzelek]

It appears that one cannot discover new resources with radar in this mod. I'm using SnoopyTiga radar and the resources and bugs don't show up on the map until I drive over to the big blank areas.

This is actually strange. RSO works in same way as this mod and radar discovers everything properly.

[SirRichie]

It appears that one cannot discover new resources with radar in this mod. I'm using SnoopyTiga radar and the resources and bugs don't show up on the map until I drive over to the big blank areas.

This is actually strange. RSO works in same way as this mod and radar discovers everything properly.

This is what I find strange as well. However, I have made this observation a few times myself. Even charting chunks from the console and then recharting them yields different results.
The mod does not change radar behavior, and the discovery behavior is somewhat inconsistent. Once I have more data, I will contact the devs.

Also thanks orzelek, I didn't know you were checking out my mod

is there a way to make this mod compatible with other mods, so the ores from them also spawn ? LIke Bobs or Crafted Artifacts

This is actually what I am working on for the next release. There will be a default resource config applied to every resource added by other mods, which can be overridden selectively in the config file. Stay tuned!

[Ringkeeper]

is there a way to make this mod compatible with other mods, so the ores from them also spawn ? LIke Bobs or Crafted Artifacts

This is actually what I am working on for the next release. There will be a default resource config applied to every resource added by other mods, which can be overridden selectively in the config file. Stay tuned!

nice at least i know in the current game i don't need to search for them ^^ So good old alien killing for now.

And about radar:

sometimes it takes some time to detect stuff, also when you walk, as the area gets too slow generated. Had the same problem while driving with train, train suddenly stopped and after 5 seconds a alien camp spawnt ^^

[orzelek]

is there a way to make this mod compatible with other mods, so the ores from them also spawn ? LIke Bobs or Crafted Artifacts

This is actually what I am working on for the next release. There will be a default resource config applied to every resource added by other mods, which can be overridden selectively in the config file. Stay tuned!

nice at least i know in the current game i don't need to search for them ^^ So good old alien killing for now.

And about radar:

sometimes it takes some time to detect stuff, also when you walk, as the area gets too slow generated. Had the same problem while driving with train, train suddenly stopped and after 5 seconds a alien camp spawnt ^^

That kind of stuttering behaviour when discovering new stuff is a performance problem on ore generation. It's mostly happening when you use mods that generate ores in some way or modify terrain. To much work done during one tick = stuttering.

[Ringkeeper]

well, the good thing, you made your config easy My wife (i'm too dumb ) was able to add the rare earth from the artifact crafting so it spawns ^^ and she managed to change the endless to non-endless (she does't like endless resources) .... unfortunately oil is now also not endless... she is happy, me not... but well, marriage is with sacrifices but we set oil high ^^

[SirRichie]

well, the good thing, you made your config easy My wife (i'm too dumb ) was able to add the rare earth from the artifact crafting so it spawns ^^ and she managed to change the endless to non-endless (she does't like endless resources) .... unfortunately oil is now also not endless... she is happy, me not... but well, marriage is with sacrifices but we set oil high ^^

If more people would like an endless/non-endless config switch, I will probably go and implement it.
Thanks for confirming that the config is somewhat easy to read though

[Ringkeeper]

i just downloaded the mod again on a different PC and did not change anything. Here i get the error:

2.405 Error Util.cpp:57: __TrainOutpost__/data-updates.lua:20: attempt to index field 'autoplace' (a nil value)

The reason for this error was natural_evolution_buildings . Deleted natural evolution (don't use it anyway anymore) and it works. But i think others still use it, so you might want to look into it.

[SirRichie]

i just downloaded the mod again on a different PC and did not change anything. Here i get the error:

2.405 Error Util.cpp:57: __TrainOutpost__/data-updates.lua:20: attempt to index field 'autoplace' (a nil value)

The reason for this error was natural_evolution_buildings . Deleted natural evolution (don't use it anyway anymore) and it works. But i think others still use it, so you might want to look into it.

This was actually discussed further up. This release is incompatible with natural evolution. However, the next one will be.