Smelting lead tier 3 worse than tier 2.

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pro5
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Smelting lead tier 3 worse than tier 2.

Post by pro5 » Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:03 am

Sorry for my bad english.
Lead tier 2
Lead tier 3
Lead tier3 requere 9 lead ores + 2.3 quarz ores + 2.3 fluorit ores.
Quarz and fluorit creates from washed ores. Fluorit requere 200% of washed ores. Washed ores creates from crushed ores.
So, totals result: 9 + 2.3 + 2.3 x 200% = 15.9 crushed ores! Tier 2 requere 12 crushed ores.
Smelting lead tier 2 better than tier 3. and easer setup.
(Angel smelting ver. 0.4.6 - 0.16)

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Re: Smelting lead tier 3 worse than tier 2.

Post by pro5 » Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:19 am

And "Cement creation tier 3" is unbalanced too.
cementT2T3.jpg
cementT2T3.jpg (73.32 KiB) Viewed 848 times
1 Cement T2 requere 1 ore.
1 Cement T3 requere 1.5 ores.
T3 have only better speed. But most players choose best profit.

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Re: Smelting lead tier 3 worse than tier 2.

Post by Light » Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:31 am

The cement recipe may seem worse but it produces twice the yield per machine. This means nearly half the footprint (land) is needed while keeping a belt full. Depending on your goal, it's better to spend a bit more for faster/larger yields once you get mid-late game and resources are plentiful.

Tier 3 lead is problomatic due to its fluoride requirement as it's far more valuable than 3 lead ore could ever be. It needs a fluoride waste water output to salvage some of the valuable ore.

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Re: Smelting lead tier 3 worse than tier 2.

Post by GrumpyJoe » Fri Jan 04, 2019 3:17 pm

the 2nd Cement reciepe is not realy 3 mandatory ores per craft, as Alumina can be created via processed and/or pellets, but yeah, its definatly more than the first one.

Ive never used washing for ores, most is done with direct sorting (sometimes to supplement indirect sorting), and I guess its up to what ores do you use elsewhere, and how easy they are produced.

In direct sorting, both Aluminium and Silicon use chunks, while iron is easier to get via simple crushed ore.
So with processed/pelleted Aluminium and easier iron, it uses less Silicon, which in this reciepe cant be upgraded since its direct ore.

I just ran the numbers for 100 cement each, and in raw (minable) ore, its 1:1,25. (when Alumina is made with pellets)
But it uses alot more byproducts, like sodium(s) in the almunia chain.

There is no easy way to find out if its worth it, since its only machine building material anyway, unless you wanna pave the world with it. :lol:

Again, i have no clue about washing for ores, so this maybe is not the droid you looking for

I also never went for the T3 lead ingots, as lead is not really used that much that its worth it upgrading for less raw ore use.
Might try it, since im on a map with Madclowns science alternatives, which can use lead plates for SP1
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Re: Smelting lead tier 3 worse than tier 2.

Post by pro5 » Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:16 pm

GrumpyJoe,
probably, ores have different names in different language.
Washed ores is:
w.jpg
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Re: Smelting lead tier 3 worse than tier 2.

Post by GrumpyJoe » Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:46 pm

ok, then you are using the same as me. Thought you are "washing" mineral sludge, like in sea block.
My bad :roll:

Yes, thats the one i was talking about, direct sorted Silicon
The 2nd Cement is using less Silicon, by adding Iron, which is easier to sort.
And Alumina, which can be made with Aluminium pellets, so its not Aluminium ore.
Its always a tradeoff. Depends on what you prefer, doesnt always have to be "better" like all the other ore upgrades
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Re: Smelting lead tier 3 worse than tier 2.

Post by Haxxibal » Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:16 am

Lead 3 and Cement 3 both heavily compliment Jivolite Chunk Sorting and Manganese 1, at least in Seablock. Depending on your version it might also be the case in normal Angels.

If you base your entire mid game ore sorting around both recipes you will have tons of manganese ingots and "fluorite" to spare. Alumina and iron ore are cheaper than silicon ore, silicon ore is cheaper than lead. That's because lead ore is the only basic ore not featured in the Cupric and Ferrous Ore lines. Combined lead sorting is less efficient than all the other ore sorting recipes I mentioned.

However, Lead 2 gives you three times more sulfur than Lead 3.

I won't call Lead 3 worse than Lead 2, it's more of a side-grade. I've played games with either or both, it just depends on your overall strategy for ore sorting.

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Re: Smelting lead tier 3 worse than tier 2.

Post by pro5 » Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:02 pm

And I found Resin 2 better than resin 3.
resin T2 vs T3
Resin 2 require 400 Methanol + simple fluids (nitrogen + hydrogen)
Resin 3 require 481 Methanol + 142 Methan + 200 Hydrochloric + other fluids. And setup is harder and bigger.

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Re: Smelting lead tier 3 worse than tier 2.

Post by Arch666Angel » Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:56 pm

Some of the higher techs are not direct upgrades but rather better options in terms of waste usage. Same for the Resin chains you posted, you are not using the "waste" material from resin 3 e.g. the residuals and also not the most efficient combination there is :)

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Re: Smelting lead tier 3 worse than tier 2.

Post by OkariDraconis » Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:23 pm

I have too much florite usually, but I tend to do Slag -> Crystallization for my Uranium... so I get a lot of florite..

I used to have a Sulfer problem till I switch all my Coke manufacturing from baking it to washing for the sulfer waste water. But I'm not even processing my acid gas right now :P
Please review this idea when you get a chance
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