Development and Discussion

[mrvn]

Hi "Arch666Angel"
I would like to ask you for you agreement.

I am preparing "Real_world_mod" for Factorio (latest version). I want to avoid incompatibility with loading many 'BIG' mods together (as we can see in Angels and Bobs mod - same technology are useless or doubled), so i decided create totaly new mod folder with the best technology (i would like to use your graphics and graphics from Bobs mods as well - i mean buildings, materials (icons), only models ("entity" and .png files) as is (without graphics changes).

This mod (should) include also my recipes and items:
1) Menu - icons are sorted together with vanilla factorio (no vanilla menu and Angels and Bobs menu separate)
2) Real ores (Hematite, bornite, sfalrite - real world ores, sorting and using)
3) Nuclear laboratory and uranium and thorium new processing, new fluids, new chemicals
4) New types of nuclear reactor (fuel - uranium, plutonium, fusion)
5) Some new electricity (solar panel MK4 with using termoelectric generator etc.)
6) Some new electronic (sollar cells, optics, magnets, heaters for el. furnaces)
7) Ore crusher, simple distilers for using only pure water from see water, liquification laboratory (liquid helium...)
8) Fusion reaction components (deuterium, tritium, helium...)
9) Milling tools, filters
10) Re-write module system (to module 8 only)
11) Gems are sorted in "sorter" and they are using for minerals extraction: diamond->milling tools, hand tool, Emerald-> berillium (neutron reflector, deflector for many nuclear reaction and bombs)…

Other recipes and items I will prepare later.
These technologies are completed done and fully function on my computer only (it was spent about 6 months)

Therefore i would like to ask you about your agree with using your models as is - (files (above mentioned) copied to my folder).
I will take some months to completed this mod (i am waiting for 0.17 and update) and if you will have a time or participate, I will be glad.
Of course, if you will agree, your name will be write like a co-author in "info.json" file together with "bobingabout" as well.

Thank you very much for understading

Why don't you simply depend on Bob/Angle mods and then disable recipes and techs that should not be there and use the graphics from those mods without copying them?

[Redstylt]

Hi it appears with the 0.7.11 Angel's petrochem
Is it you or sea block ?

angel_bug.PNG (10.15 KiB) Viewed 10341 times

[Rensiur]

I think for Seablock you should not update mods on your own as teh Sea-Block Maintainer changes quite a few recipes around. A Mod update will probably break that change, thus don't auto update when playing seablock.

[Gladaed]

Hi,

Marathon Mode seems broken (currently) it is impossible to use the copper from coil machine without flooding everything with copper ore since everything you craft consumes way less copper ore than iron ore. I would suggest halving the wire output of that recipe (and maybe buff wires in expensive wires slightly. They seem to be good where they are tho)

[Sr.patata]

Its petrochem i have the same issue
https://pasteboard.co/HBA6WVy.png

[Arch666Angel]

Its petrochem i have the same issue
https://pasteboard.co/HBA6WVy.png

Dont update when playing seablock, it's a fixed pack. Wait for trainwreck to update seablock.

[Light]

The creation of creatures is intriguing. Having creatures mushed into useful resources will be interesting when further implemented.

Just a minor migration issue, but artifact dish creation is looking for pre-artifact dishes instead of the new seeded dishes.

[Trainwreck]

Looks like the liquid rubber recipe in petrochem recieved a nerf.
In petrochem 0.7.9 the recipe used 20 styrene and 20 butadiene to make 2 solid-rubber.
Petrochem 0.7.11 uses 20 styene and 20 butadiene to make 10 liquid rubber, which is enough to make 0.5 solid rubber.
Not sure if this is a good idea, the liquid rubber recipe needs to compete with cooking resin in a furnace rubber production.

Also, the fluid-name.liquid-rubber localization key is missing.

And a minor inconsistency, for plastic and resin the chemical plant which makes the liquid can take productivity modules and the assembler making bars cannot. For rubber it's the other way around. Not sure if this is intentional.

[Arch666Angel]

Looks like the liquid rubber recipe in petrochem recieved a nerf.
In petrochem 0.7.9 the recipe used 20 styrene and 20 butadiene to make 2 solid-rubber.
Petrochem 0.7.11 uses 20 styene and 20 butadiene to make 10 liquid rubber, which is enough to make 0.5 solid rubber.
Not sure if this is a good idea, the liquid rubber recipe needs to compete with cooking resin in a furnace rubber production.

Also, the fluid-name.liquid-rubber localization key is missing.

And a minor inconsistency, for plastic and resin the chemical plant which makes the liquid can take productivity modules and the assembler making bars cannot. For rubber it's the other way around. Not sure if this is intentional.

There will be 1-2 new recipes in the future for rubber with increased production to match the plastic and resin chains and it's probably time to disable the bob resin recipe as a whole when bio-processing is there cause of the dersert/rubber trees now. But I have to check that first to avoid introducing blocks for the circuits anywhere.

[kaszak696]

I think the resin recipe shouldn't be disabled, but made even less efficient, like the steel recipe. Something like 20 wood for one resin, maybe. It's very convenient to have early bootstrap for the second-tier circuits when you just started a new game, and you need the resin+tin+lead recipe for solder to have it. The high wood cost should encourage players to prioritize metallurgy for solder and gas processing for resin early on. It could also act as a sink for excess wood when growing trees for bio-resin.

[jodokus31]

With Bobs Greenhouse, Bobs resin from wood is so much easier compared to Angel's Resin 1 from Formaldehyde, which need green (aluminium and silver) and red (iron and copper) metal catalysts and Methanol.
Maybe with bioprocessing, theres a moderate complex route...?
Seablock solved it quite well, by having alginic acid as component for early solder instead of resin.
I played seablock, where trees, etc. weren't a thing and I had to do Angel's resin, but not before advanced circuits.

[ukezi]

you can also do solder with only metals as alloy smelting.

[jodokus31]

you can also do solder with only metals as alloy smelting.

Yes, but it requires angels smelting already. But I cannot recall, if it's a big hurdle in regular game. In seablock at least, it was iirc

[SKleen75]

Hi.
I made update today and now cannot load save.

Error AppManagerStates.cpp:1301: Error while running on_configuration_changed: Unknown sprite "recipe/alien-pre-artifact"
stack traceback:
__FNEI__/scripts/gui.lua:186: in function '?'
__FNEI__/scripts/gui.lua:148: in function 'add_gui_template'
__FNEI__/scripts/gui.lua:157: in function 'add_gui_template'
__FNEI__/scripts/gui.lua:157: in function 'add_gui_template'
__FNEI__/scripts/gui.lua:157: in function 'add_gui_template'
__FNEI__/scripts/hotbar/gui.lua:138: in function 'draw_hotbar_bar_extension'
__FNEI__/scripts/hotbar/controller.lua:41: in function 'open'
__FNEI__/scripts/events.lua:36: in function <__FNEI__/scripts/events.lua:29>

Whatt to do?

[BlueTemplar]

Hi, I have to say that it's really impressive all that you've managed to do in your mods, be it for extending vanilla, adding new gameplay or adding new graphics !

I have some questions about balance, specifically the automating of the Wooden Boards for the (Tier1) Basic Circuit Boards.
Is it normal that the only way to do it (without using Bob's OP Greenhouses) is to first research and craft some (Tier2) Basic Electronic Boards ?

With more detail :
Setting up wood energy is easy :
0.) from Wood Pellets :
You need :
Wood Processing 1 and 2 (50 + 50 Red Science).
Green Algae Processing (50 Red Sci)
Basic Chemistry (50 Red Sci) for the Liquifiers
You even have the choice between Wood (=> Pellets) and Coal to bootstrap the algae with CO2 !

However, setting up Wooden Boards is *much* more trickier !
The ways I've found :
1.) Wood(en Boards) through Cellulose Paste :
Pretty much same setup as above, except that Cellulose Paste needs Sodium Hydroxide which needs Chlorine Processing 1 (50 Red & Green Sci), which needs Basic Chemistry 2 (50 Red) and Water Treatment (30 Red).
And it's done through a Hydro Plant, which requires Steel (50 Red), but most importantly (T2) Basic Electronic Boards !
Which themselves require Electronics (30 Red + 10 Red for Automation 1), Mechanical Refining (20 Red) to crush Rubyte and Bobmonium to smelt into Tin and Lead, and Carbon, which needs the specific Chemical Furnace from Chemical Processing 1 (25 Red).

Last but not least, Wood(en Boards) have to be crafted in an Assembling Machine Mk2 (80 Red), which itself requires (T2)BEB's !
If I understand correctly, this was done to fix the "multiple sources for ingredients" crafting bug, but was the "advanced-crafting" category really the best way to go around it?
Bob has for instance added the "crafting-machine" "recipe-category" so that stuff like resin can be crafted in assembling machines (even Mk1 ones!), but not by the player.

(Can also get Cellulose from Temperate gardens... which I don't have - or Desert gardens... which require quite advanced Petrochem or a specific puffer... which requires quite advanced petrochem again!)

2.) Wooden Boards through Paper :
Pretty much as 0.) except instead of :
Chlorine Processing 1 (50 Red & Green Sci), which needs Basic Chemistry 2 (50 Red) and Water Treatment (30 Red),
you need to add Brown Algae (50 Red) and Water Treatment (30 Red) and Paper Making 1 (50 Red).
Still, this is better, as each Green Science needs a (T1)BCB ! (Which is the stuff that we are trying to automate, remember?)

3.) Making Raw Wood (logs) through the A(b)oretums (50 Red) :
Completely different, but you still need Steel and (T2)BEB's.
Requires Soil, which requires :
- Farming (50 Red) which requires Garden Processing (50 Red)
- and Mud from a Washing Plant / Seafloor Pump (50 Red) which requires Water Treatment (30 Red)

So, to resume :

Code: Select all

Common requirements :
ALL : 100 Red Science for Wood Processing 1&2
        0.) Energy from Wood Pellets : 100 Red for Green Algae Processing and Basic Chemistry 1.
    for Wooden Boards : 165 Red for Steel, Water Treatment, Automation 1, Electronics, Mechanical Refining and Chemical Processing 1
        3.) Energy and Raw Wood (logs) from A(b)oretums : 180 Red for Tree Aboretum 1, Garden Processing, Farming, and Washing 1.
        Automation 2 (80 Red) for Assembling Machines Mk2 for :
            2.) Paper : 200 Red for 0.), Brown Algae and Paper Making 1.
            1.) Cellulose : 200 Red and 50 Green for 0.), Basic Chemistry 2 and Chlorine Processing 1.
(I guess that you could shave 50 Red from 1.) and 2.) by not researching Wood Processing 2 for Energy and CO2, but then you'll need to Burn and Liquify Coal for it...)

Since I found a Desert Tree, I'm going to go for option 3.) A(r)boretums, which "only" costs 445 Red Science total...

P.S.: If you're planning to remove Bob's Resin from (Raw) Wood (logs), you're going to have an issue :
The only way I've found to make Angel's Resin is via a Chemical Plant or an Assembling Machine Mk2... which require (T2)BEB's, which require... Resin !

[BlueTemplar]

On the topic of "Bob's Leftovers", I was wondering :
Am I supposed to use Bob's Carbon (like indicated above),
or the (more expensive to research and harder to make - if you have water) Angel's Coal :
Basic Chemistry (50 Red) => Coal Processing (50 Red) :
Coal => Crushed Coal => Coke (+CO2 as another ingredient) => Carbon
?

[BlueTemplar]

Welp, I've forgotten that I need to have Energy set up way before Boards (my starting coal is Rampant-biter occupied), so it'll cost me 545 Red :

Phase 0 : Energy
Basic Chemistry (50 Red Sci) - make a Liquifier and liquify some coal from big rocks. Make another Liquifier for Mineralizing Water later.
Green Algae Processing (50 Red) - make an Algae farm, and start producing algae, make another Liquifier to liquify it into cellulose. Can start burning the cellulose, but remember to keep enough of it for producing CO2 later (if can't access any wood).
Wood Processing 1&2 (100 Red) - congratulations, energy production from algae is self-sufficient (well, except for crushed stone of course). Switch producing CO2 from coal to wood pellets.

Phase 1 : Steel & (t2)BEB's
Steel (50 Red) - start smelting some steel & make a Steel Pick for Stiratite / Bobmonium / Rubyte (it seems to be basically wasted on Saphirite)
Mechanical Refining (20 Red) - start crushing & smelting Bobmonium & Rubyte
Chemical Processing 1 (25 Red) - start making Carbon
Automation 1 (10 Red) - start making Resin
Electronics (30 Red) - finally (t2)BEB's !

Phase 2 : A(r)boretums :
Water Treatment & Washing 1 (60 Red) - make a Seafloor Pump and Washing Plant(s?), and start extracting Mud.
Garden Processing & Farming (100 Red) - make a Composter, compost some Green Algae, and start making Soil.
Tree A(r)boretum 1 (50 Red) - Plant the Desert Tree, make tree seeds, and *finally* profit from all the Wood from the A(r)boretums !

Sounds like a plan !

[foodfactorio]

cool, good luck with your phased plan bluetemplar.

ive often seen lots of people say that they are swimming in too much crushed stone, but never about possibly not getting enough of it
(in all my angels games i always store everything and never vent or void anything, but if you get stuck on fuel, you could try diverting just 25% of anything you make (which is flamable), and send it to the boilers as fuel, until something better is found (or unlocked)

(youd be surprised just how much you can store)
viewtopic.php?f=190&t=34176&p=346711&hi ... es#p294780

[BlueTemplar]

On the topic of "Bob's Leftovers", I was wondering :
Am I supposed to use Bob's Carbon (like indicated above),
or the (more expensive to research and harder to make - if you have water) Angel's Coal :
Basic Chemistry (50 Red) => Coal Processing (50 Red) :
Coal => Crushed Coal => Coke (+CO2 as another ingredient) => Carbon
?

Never mind, I didn't notice it when planning, but Bob's Carbon recipe is not on by default (and cannot be researched it would seem?).
So that makes it 545-25+50=570 Red minimum...

[BlueTemplar]

P.S.: If you're planning to remove Bob's Resin from (Raw) Wood (logs), you're going to have an issue :
The only way I've found to make Angel's Resin is via a Chemical Plant or an Assembling Machine Mk2... which require (T2)BEB's, which require... Resin !

Never mind about that too, as, as it was pointed out to me on Discord, you can get Advanced Solder Smelting 1 (for 200 Red), which will allow you to make (T2)BEB's without resin !
(Thankfully, the basic smelting machines only require (T1)BCB's and steel,
and you'd better research Metallurgy 1 ASAP anyway, for the more efficient Iron, and especially Steel recipes !)